IceDove replaced Thunderbird.

70 risposte [Ultimo contenuto]
akfoss
Offline
Iscritto: 09/03/2014

Today, I just ran 'sudo aptitude update' and after that I noticed that Thunderbird has become an obsolete package.

IceDove is available in the repository, and it seems that Thunderbird has been replaced by IceDove.

jxself
Offline
Iscritto: 09/13/2010

Yes, the change was necessary to avoid Mozilla's trademark policy which disallowed commercial distribution - a necessary thing to have freedom #2.

Dave_Hunt

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 09/19/2011

Q\\\\\\\I'm glad this has finally been done; now, we're free of conflicts with Mozilla's trademark issues.

Forna
Offline
Iscritto: 01/12/2014

Thanks for the info.

pogiako12345
Offline
Iscritto: 07/11/2014

Thanks for this info brah!

megurineturilli
Offline
Iscritto: 01/10/2012

I still have Thunderbird and I cant update.

Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Package icedove is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source

E: Package 'icedove' has no installation candidate

Mara Manishi
Offline
Iscritto: 11/17/2014

update your package list
sudo apt-get update
then try.. I got it today

Gnu
Gnu
Offline
Iscritto: 03/08/2012

Claws-Mail is the best!!

lloydsmart

I am a member!

Offline
Iscritto: 12/22/2012

Don't forget Evolution!

oysterboy

I am a member!

I am a translator!

Offline
Iscritto: 02/01/2011

I don't see any change in Trisquel 6. Are we talking about a Trisquel 7 change?

akfoss
Offline
Iscritto: 09/03/2014

Thunderbird is not available either in Trisquel 6 or 7, anymore. But currently Icedove has only been added to the repository of Trisquel 7.

Jabjabs
Offline
Iscritto: 07/05/2014

I figured as much, I'm back on T6 and could not find IceDove.

oysterboy

I am a member!

I am a translator!

Offline
Iscritto: 02/01/2011

Oh, now I see that Thunderbird has indeed been removed from Trisquel 6 :(. I do understand the rationale behind that decision, but am disappointed that there is no way to install Icedove on the only supported release of Trisquel as of today. Is there somehope of having Icedove on 6?

pogiako12345
Offline
Iscritto: 07/11/2014

Ah so that's why.

Legimet
Offline
Iscritto: 12/10/2013

The proper way to transition is replacing with transitional packages, not by removing the package. Trisquel has too many of these annoying issues with packages.

boaz
Offline
Iscritto: 08/09/2013

I'd have to say the transition is not going smoothly so far.

Just as an example, take the case of a new user of Trisquel 7.0 who is accustomed to installing software from Add/Remove Applications. He goes to Add/Remove Applications, and searches for Thunderbird (because he's used it in the past and knows the name). Thunderbird appears as an option to install!

So he checks it, but finds that the curser starts swirling and nothing ever happens again, indefinitely.

If by some miracle he decided instead to search for Icedove (and how would he know to do that in the first place), Icedove does not appear as an option to install!

So as I said, not a very smooth transition.

SuperTramp83

I am a translator!

Offline
Iscritto: 10/31/2014

well..don't use add/remove apps - the app is flawed anyway. Use synaptics or better yet the terminal and aptitude search and apt-get install..

boaz
Offline
Iscritto: 08/09/2013

This is such a terrible attitude.

The vast majority of computer users will *never* type anything into a command line, ever. The vast majority of computer users simply will not use an operating system the use of which requires them to type anything into a command line, and nothing anyone has to say about it will ever change that.

The Trisquel project holds Trisquel out as an operating system suitable for use by the general public.

Do you beleive in the virtue of software freedom? If you think it's okay for free software to be useable only by a small minority of people, then in effect you're saying most people should use proprietary software, and ultimately you do not beleive in the virtue of software freedom.

Besides: Add/Remove Applications ships with Trisquel, hence it should work.

gary02121993@openmailbox.org
Offline
Iscritto: 04/06/2015

Hi!

Do you think Trisquel is ok for the general public to use already?
Curious. To be honest, I think not yet. Well, I don't know.

On 04/08/2015 08:19 AM, name at domain wrote:
> This is such a terrible attitude.
>
> The vast majority of computer users will *never* type anything into a
> command line, ever. The vast majority of computer users simply will not
> use an operating system the use of which requires them to type anything
> into a command line, and nothing anyone has to say about it will ever
> change that.
>
> The Trisquel project holds Trisquel out as an operating system suitable
> for use by the general public.
>
> Do you beleive in the virtue of software freedom? If you think it's
> okay for free software to be useable only by a small minority of people,
> then in effect you're saying most people should use proprietary
> software, and ultimately you do not beleive in the virtue of software
> freedom.
>
> Besides: Add/Remove Applications ships with Trisquel, hence it should work.

onpon4
Offline
Iscritto: 05/30/2012

Yeah.

I wonder why the heck Trisquel sticks with gnome-app-install when it's long been deprecated upstream (replaced by Software Center), but it does work OK.

JadedCtrl
Offline
Iscritto: 08/11/2014

I think Trisquel is OK for the general public to use.
You don't need to even touch the terminal to use Trisquel, but people on the forums tell people how to use it anyways. (I'm guilty of this as well...)
Add/Remove Applications is fine, but GNOME Software is much better. I hope Trisquel 8 switches to it...

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

"Do you beleive in the virtue of software freedom? If you think it's okay for free software to be useable only by a small minority of people, then in effect you're saying most people should use proprietary software "

This statement is _ridiculous_.
The "virtue of software freedom" is neither usability nor functionality, and nobody promised to you that free software has any of those two properties.
Developers try very hard to make it happen though, but if they fail - to what extent doesn't matter here -, they don't "force" people to use proprietary software because of that.
Supertramp indicated a way how to get the job done with free software; if the general public isn't satisfied with this, that's unfortunate.

If you argue like that you come to the absurd conclusion that everybody is guilty of forcing people into proprietary software who does not actively write completely satisfactory free software;

boaz
Offline
Iscritto: 08/09/2013

By the way, I did indeed install Icedove using the terminal. My original post was a general commentary about the transition to Icedove, not a request for help. Perhaps that was not clear and if so I appologize.

My point here is that "just use the terminal" is not a good answer from a overall policy perspective because, if that's the only answer the community has to offer, most users potential users will simply give up on the software.

I can't even count how many people I know have completely given up on "linux" because they beleive it requires use of a terminal.

wpurcell
Offline
Iscritto: 11/07/2009

Is there any chance of including Icedove in 6?

wpurcell
Offline
Iscritto: 11/07/2009

Trisquel 6.01 is supported until 2017 with no Thunderbird/Icedove? How would I install either of these programs?

a_slacker_here
Offline
Iscritto: 06/30/2013

Well, if you want to install Icedove I'd suggest you install gdebi first:

$ sudo apt-get install gdebi

Then, try to download Icedove from debian's repos, try "Jessie" or "Wheezy":

https://packages.debian.org/jessie/icedove

Afterwards, cd to the "Download" directory and use "Gedbi" to install:

$ sudo gdebi icedove_31.0-3_i386.deb

If this doesn't work, try with other version inside debian.

If you are desparate, go to Ubuntu's repos and repeat tha same for Thunderbird.

http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/mail/

Don't forget to install the locale package you need.

TheAngel
Offline
Iscritto: 10/13/2014

This is unsafe.

Please don't follow this istruction.

Install software only via apt-get that download package from the repositoires.

onpon4
Offline
Iscritto: 05/30/2012

How is this "unsafe"? These aren't just some random binaries, they're packages maintained by the Debian and Ubuntu projects. Also, this doesn't enable updates, so it's not as if you have to worry about something no good being recommended as an upgrade later.

TheAngel
Offline
Iscritto: 10/13/2014

People should not install package outside repositoires.

Apt check each packages against their digital signature and if the signature don't match the official one, warn you and ask you what to do (install anyway or discard).

Usually when you have this error just run apt-get update and you're ok.

If you download thunderbird from ubuntu's website the connection is not encrypted (is http) so is easy to compromise your security by a man-in-the-middle attach made by NSA spying program or compromised network device (at your home/office/isp/backbone)

If you download icedove from debian's website you are using https that is ok, but you don't check the digital signature and this is bad because this is an additional security system that allow you to not trust the mirror's that you have used.

For example see here

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BasicSecurity

4. stick to the official repo's as much as possible, and only deviate from them when strictly necessary and with much caution;

A good paper is: https://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt

Probably a solution can be "How to manually check for package's integrity" but probably you have to import some external keys.

IMHO best solution is to install claws-mail.

Legimet
Offline
Iscritto: 12/10/2013

That's true, but the ubuntu/debian keyrings are included in the Trisquel repos, so you don't need to import external keys to verify

TheAngel
Offline
Iscritto: 10/13/2014

Nice to know, Thanks you :)

a_slacker_here
Offline
Iscritto: 06/30/2013

Please, expose why this is unsafe, I want to know.

This is not a pasive-agressive comment, I really want to know why that is unsafe.

jxself
Offline
Iscritto: 09/13/2010

Part of the suggestion was going to Ubuntu and installing Thunderbird. Thunderbird is not free software. Please don't suggest installing non-free software on these forums or the mailing list.

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

Man, thunderbird was part of trisquel for years and years.
Now that it has been removed for a few days we shouldn't even tell people anymore how to install it? This is just ridiculous, sorry.

Jabjabs
Offline
Iscritto: 07/05/2014

Unfortunately the state of freedom can change on these projects. So long as you can ensure that you are getting a purely free version then it is no real issue for installation instructions but that cannot be done here.

Personally I'm just saddened that Thunderbird is no longer free software but that just means we need to find alternative solutions.

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

What are you talking about? Afaik the trademark issues with thunderbird always existed.
Can you explain which changes you mean?

oysterboy

I am a member!

I am a translator!

Offline
Iscritto: 02/01/2011

Yeah I don't get the hurry either. A nice transition to Icedove would've been appreciated. It's not very nice to remove a major and widely used package from an LTS version without providing a freed version as replacement.

jxself
Offline
Iscritto: 09/13/2010

"Man, thunderbird was part of trisquel for years and years."

By mistake.

Legimet
Offline
Iscritto: 12/10/2013

OK, but instead of removing thunderbird completely on T6, wouldn't it have been a better idea to replace it with icedove and add a transitional package for thunderbird?

t3g
t3g
Offline
Iscritto: 05/15/2011

Thunderbird in theory IS free software, but free software evangelists don't like that it uses the Mozilla add-ons page which contains some non-free packages.

Btw, does this IceDove release replace the integrated Bing search with DuckDuckGo?

jxself
Offline
Iscritto: 09/13/2010

"Thunderbird in theory IS free software"

Even if you ignore the add-on problem it is not because all four freedoms are not available. You get 3 or maybe 3.5 depending on how you count. Rebranded versions allow you to escape Mozilla's crazy licensing and restore all 4. So "Mozilla Thunderbird" proper cannot be said to be free software, no, since all 4 freedoms aren't available with "Mozilla Thunderbird." Hope that helps. :)

a_slacker_here
Offline
Iscritto: 06/30/2013

Yes, it helped. Thank you for clarifying that jxself, I didn't fully understand all of that. :)

a_slacker_here
Offline
Iscritto: 06/30/2013

I cannot remove what I have written.

Sorry.

Gnu
Gnu
Offline
Iscritto: 03/08/2012

Thunderbirs was very slow, my alternative is:

Thunderbird: sudo apt-get install claws-mail

Enigmail: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-pgpinline claws-mail-pgpmime

AntiSpam: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-bogofilter

Notification: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-multi-notifier

For html e-mail: sudo apt-get install claws-mail-fancy-plugin

For Lightning: sudo apt-get install osmo

Sim
Sim
Offline
Iscritto: 09/29/2013

Thanks for your information.

I will give claws-mail a try.
You are using claws-mail-pgpinline, right? Is everything working well? I remember one issue with enigmail in the past where it failed to encrypt mails and sent these mails unencrypted.

I have to write a new appamor profile for claws-mail but it shouldn't take much time.

Gnu
Gnu
Offline
Iscritto: 03/08/2012

Yes, for me it works really good.

Sim
Sim
Offline
Iscritto: 09/29/2013

Everything works great. The only issue I have is the missing import function in vCalendar, so I have to rewrite all entries from Lightning.

HuangLao
Offline
Iscritto: 01/19/2014

+1 for claws-mail with plugins (bogofilter, mail archiver, mailmbox, pgp, fancy html, RSSyl [feed reader]. Osmo is a good alternative to Lightning, much better than vcalendar plugin.

Would like to see claws be the default email client, on Trisquel mini sylpheed is default, but IMHO claws mail is much better and just as light.

TheAngel
Offline
Iscritto: 10/13/2014

I have tried apt-get upgrade but I have no updates from thunderbird, icedove or whatever.

When are the replacement planned?

Thanks you.

onpon4
Offline
Iscritto: 05/30/2012

I don't get this:

There was an FSF blog post from either earlier this year or last year making a list of software the FSF was using, and Thunderbird was in the list. It has been absolutely common knowledge that Thunderbird was in Trisquel. People talked about and recommended Thunderbird all the time.

Look at this, an issue about this from 2 years ago:

https://trisquel.info/en/issues/6456

And you're honestly saying that Thunderbird was in Trisquel "by mistake" for all that time, and the mistake was only realized when RMS sent an email about it?

What's the trigger here? I don't get it. Did RMS really need to personally announce that this is a problem before it was taken seriously?

quantumgravity
Offline
Iscritto: 04/22/2013

Could you tell us about the email you mentioned? Never heard of it.