6.0 development should start now
Even with 5.5 around the corner, I believe that work on 6.0 should start immediately for a few reasons.
1. Ubuntu 12.04 beta 2 is out so there are available packages to test against. This is good because testing now can bring a quicker release and gives Ruben an extra month to tweak things.
2. Customization of the desktop is still fresh on the mind. Since Ruben is finalizing the 5.5 ISO and Ubuntu 12.04 will use Gnome 3 like 11.10, the learning curve isn't as big as it was from the 5.0 to 5.5 change.
I know all of this will be ignored in favor of some tying of the release to a FSF event, but we need quicker releases. I know it is great and all to tie these releases to an event, but even that doesn't guarantee anything and 5.5 is already past its due date. I love this operating system and it kills me to wait so long due to Ruben doing all of this work himself. I'm sure that he is a busy guy and I wish there was more of a plan to equal out the workload so its not all on him.
must work with tranquility and serenity without anxiety on our next project with the community
I am a translator!
It's the same problem my friends usually report me about Trisquel.
An highlight of distributions like Ubuntu is the speed of release, and with a
delay of 5-6 months you lose a lot of "charm" of the new packages. Even if
they are more stable, perhaps 1-2 months are a better compromise than 5-6.
This would be a constructive comment, I still love Trisquel :)
This is always a "valid criticism". In a perfect world we would have releases 1 day after Ubuntu releases. Or even we wouldn't need Trisquel because Ubuntu would be a fully-free distro.
But it isn't and we live in the real world. I don't know what you mean by compromise of 1-2 months instead of 5-6. This isn't a deal or argument where people compromise. It is about the amount of work needed to put out a release. The releases are not withheld for 4 months just to make you squirm.
As I mentioned below if you want to make the releases happen faster you can help ruben with the work or contribute financially. I personally do 20 euros a month but even 5 would be a big help. If we have more devs the work will get done sooner. It is as simple as that.
I have a lot of spare time and could help with the development. But seeing
the bug list and how development is done everything would spin around Ruben
again. If I find a fix I have to contact him so he could set it up. Some bugs
like the screensavers mentioning Ubuntu text or the template folder icon are
also trivial so I just wait for the fix anyway.
I am a translator!
You are absolutely right, before complaining we should be the first to
contribute our share to improve the project.
I'm not a Trisquel member but only a member of FSF since I'm only a student,
and I'm helping to Trisquel not only as a translator, even through online
diffusion and explaining why Trisquel should play a larger role than it
currently does - many people who promote free software in Italy don't know
the existence of Trisquel Project!
I thought the reason why the versions are released after X months was due to
coincide with events such as the Document Freedom Day and the LibrePlanet
Conference.
Anyway, it wouldn't be in any way a criticism of Ruben work, but just a
statement of what I hear.
That is fine if you can't be a member for whatever reason. Those two days are "ideal" but obviously as is apparent with the 5.5 release we can't always stick so it.
A large part is simply the work that needs to be put in which is why 5.5 is not out yet.
I love this operating system and it kills me to wait so long due to Ruben
doing all of this work himself.
See our page on how to help. Ruben has other jobs besides this. Personally
I find it mildly insulting for you to say "you guys need to put out releases
quicker and work harder" but you don't put your money where your mouth is. I
don't see your name on the donation page or member page. It is fairly easy
to sit back, and tell the other guy he needs to spit out releases faster.
IMO Ruben doesn't need someone who isn't even paying him for his work to tell
him how to do his job. My answer to that is It is done when it is done
I'm sure that he is a busy guy and I wish there was more of a plan to equal
out the workload so its not all on him.
There is a plan. Increase funding so we can hire more developers.
I am a member!
If you can't bring yourself to donate (for financial reasons, etc) help
promote free software in general. There are lots of people here and in
particular using other distributions who don't know about the various
problems. Distributions that include non-free software or make it more
readily available don't hate free software. These distributions rely on
freedom just like Trisquel. The differences of opinion is largely in the
approach to tackling non-free software and support issues. The reasons for
the "open source" position is not a hate for free software. It is in order to
gain mainstream "support" (which is a problem for free software users on both
sides of the issue). Ideally we all want to be shipping exclusively free
software though.
It really is pretty easy to explain in simple terms the importance of
avoiding non-free software and how it negatively impacts users. In order for
the free software community to support hardware / software there needs to be
the support from manufacturers / software companies. Many companies show an
unwillingness or inability to cooperate with the free software community
though. Without free software drivers, firmware, and other software there is
no guarantee your hardware or software will continue working. The community
literally can't support it. There are no bug fixes, there are no
improvements, there is only a reliance on the manufacturer for
drivers/firmware/updates. Non-free dependencies mean your stuff may or may
not continue to work.
Most of the problems users run into in GNU/Linux have to do with purchases of
hardware dependent on non-free components or other non-free software.
You can see that across the board with just about every class of device.
You can see that with pure software situations as well such as the non-free
Java Oracle debacle where users lost support for Java applications due to the
discontinuation of licensing terms which allowed for the distribution of said
software.
You can now see this happening again with Adobe Flash. For quite a few years
now most distribution have had support. Now Adobe has decided to discontinue
the older software and left users out in the cold. Had the software been free
Mozilla or another party could continue developing the software. Instead what
has happened is Adobe has teamed up with Google and turned Adobe's Flash into
a Chrome exclusive feature.
There are very few devices that will continue working year after year in
GNU/Linux. Users should be weary of purchasing random hardware or any "Linux"
hardware. What users should be seeking is free software compatible hardware.
We have put together a catalog to help solve this problem.
I can give some general advice on where to look for free software compatible
hardware although there are many issues with getting it outside of our
catalog.
N Mini PCIe Wireless cards: Any N Atheros Mini PCIe card is golden
N USB Wirelesss cards: Any device with an Atheros AR9170 should be golden
G USB Wireless cards: Any device with an Realtek 8187B or 8187L chipset
should be golden
N Wirless PCIe & PCI cards: Technically any with an Atheros N chipset should
work. I would not suggest trying to get a random card based on this
information as in practice there are various issues. What you get may or may
not work.
USB Bluetooth cards: CSR is what you need to aim for although not all cards
with a CSR chipset work.
Bluetooth / Wifi combo Mini PCIe cards: The cards with an Atheros wifi and an
Atheros bluetooth chipset are best although there is currently no free
software support for the bluetooth portion. We advise a pure Atheros wireless
Mini PCIe card with a USB Bluetooth dongle with CSR chipset.
Printers & Multifunction machines: HP is the way to go. While there are a few
non-HP printers that are free software compatible it is not worth the
headache. Not all HP printers and multifunction machines are free software
friendly though. While HP's documentation is very good for figuring out which
printers to buy one needs to understand how to interpret the documentation. A
good portion of the Inkjet printers and multifunction machines are free
software friendly. The color laserjet multifunction machines should be
avoided at the consumer end. They all require non-free software. I would
suggest inquiring with us before purchasing a printer if you don't get one
from ThinkPenguin.
Ethernet cards: Most 10/100 ethernet chipsets are free software compatible
although not all. At least some 10/100/1000 ethernet chipsets are dependent
on non-free software. I have not suggestions as to how to locate free
software compatible cards. We do sell both 10/100 and 10/100/1000 USB cards
that are free software compatible (the 10/100/100 may not work yet with free
distributions- I believe we will see support by Trisquel's 6 release though).
USB sound cards: Most should work with free software. There are some that
should be avoided. Creative's newer cards for instance. There are also some
USB audio cards which I believe don't work. We have two USB audio cards which
should work good enough for most users.
USB 3 express cards: If I recall there is only one chipset for these devices.
In theory I believe this should work although the support is kind of iffy
right now.
This covers a good portion of the problems people encounter and just finding
out what chipsets they have using lsusb and lspci can give you a good
indication of the problem. If they aren't using one of the above chipsets
explain the problem and suggest switching cards/systems/devices/etc.
ATI and NVidia graphics chipsets are also a problem. Unfortunately you can't
easily replace these. There are also problems switching Mini PCIe Wireless
cards in many newer systems. This is due to digital restrictions in the BIOS.
HP, Lenovo, IBM, Dell, and Toshiba users may want to get a USB wireless card
instead. We advise users not to purchase new laptops from these companies. We
do have a limited selection of laptops and desktops with many configuration
options for just about any price point you may need to hit.
I am a translator!
Hello Chris,
Do you have any recommendations regarding TV tuner cards?
I am a translator!
I think that thinking on a new release will be very important for Trisquel. I
know that Ruben has other things to do, but if we start now he will have more
time for fix the last things before the release.
SirGrant, you probably will say that I'm not a member and other similar...
I'm not a member of Trisquel, I'm a student, I don't work, I'm already member
of the FSF and I cannot ask my parents other money, they pay already my
university.
I'm not a developer of Trisquel, but I don't know how to write software, I'm
studying it with the task to help Trisquel in the next future.
I'm a translator, this is the only thing I can do now, but I care about
Trisquel!
I think that the work to make for the grow up of the free software is very
big, and that's because I say that we have to continue always developing,
translating and fixing Trisquel.
I am a translator!
The whole point of Trisquel is to have a stable release based on Ubuntu. If
your hardware requires newer packages than those offered by Trisquel (e.g.
newer version of alsa and newer kernel) you can always use Parabola until the
newer version of Trisquel is released.
I'm getting some decent money for a recent project pretty soon and have been
pondering upgrading my desktop PC by getting a Penguin Pro through
ThinkPenguin. I've been comparing pricing of similar setups on TP and
System76 and figured my overdue donation would be through the arrangement TP
has with the Trisquel team by buying a libre machine.
I'm currently shopping around to see if it is a good deal to spend $800-$900
on a machine that I also want to use for video editing as well and if there
are any big benefits at this moment with an i7 processor over an i5. Also
been looking for coupon codes but haven't seen any yet.
I am a translator!
It's the same problem my friends usually report me about Trisquel.
An highlight of distributions like Ubuntu is the speed of release, and with a delay of 5-6 months you lose a lot of "charm" of the new packages. Even if they are more stable, perhaps 1-2 months are a better compromise than 5-6.
This would be a constructive comment, I still love Trisquel :)
This is always a "valid criticism". In a perfect world we would have
releases 1 day after Ubuntu releases. Or even we wouldn't need Trisquel
because Ubuntu would be a fully-free distro.
But it isn't and we live in the real world. I don't know what you mean by
compromise of 1-2 months instead of 5-6. This isn't a deal or argument where
people compromise. It is about the amount of work needed to put out a
release. The releases are not withheld for 4 months just to make you squirm.
As I mentioned below if you want to make the releases happen faster you can
help ruben with the work or contribute financially. I personally do 20 euros
a month but even 5 would be a big help. If we have more devs the work will
get done sooner. It is as simple as that.
I have a lot of spare time and could help with the development. But seeing the bug list and how development is done everything would spin around Ruben again. If I find a fix I have to contact him so he could set it up. Some bugs like the screensavers mentioning Ubuntu text or the template folder icon are also trivial so I just wait for the fix anyway.
I am a translator!
You are absolutely right, before complaining we should be the first to contribute our share to improve the project.
I'm not a Trisquel member but only a member of FSF since I'm only a student, and I'm helping to Trisquel not only as a translator, even through online diffusion and explaining why Trisquel should play a larger role than it currently does - many people who promote free software in Italy don't know the existence of Trisquel Project!
I thought the reason why the versions are released after X months was due to coincide with events such as the Software Freedom Day and the LibrePlanet Conference.
Anyway, it wouldn't be in any way a criticism of Ruben work, but just a statement of what I hear.
That is fine if you can't be a member for whatever reason. Those two days
are "ideal" but obviously as is apparent with the 5.5 release we can't always
stick so it.
A large part is simply the work that needs to be put in which is why 5.5 is
not out yet.
I love this operating system and it kills me to wait so long due to Ruben doing all of this work himself.
See our page on how to help. Ruben has other jobs besides this. Personally I find it mildly insulting for you to say "you guys need to put out releases quicker and work harder" but you don't put your money where your mouth is. I don't see your name on the donation page or member page. It is fairly easy to sit back, and tell the other guy he needs to spit out releases faster. IMO Ruben doesn't need someone who isn't even paying him for his work to tell him how to do his job. My answer to that is It is done when it is done
I'm sure that he is a busy guy and I wish there was more of a plan to equal out the workload so its not all on him.
There is a plan. Increase funding so we can hire more developers.
I am a member!
If you can't bring yourself to donate (for financial reasons, etc) help promote free software in general. There are lots of people here and in particular using other distributions who don't know about the various problems. Distributions that include non-free software or make it more readily available don't hate free software. These distributions rely on freedom just like Trisquel. The differences of opinion is largely in the approach to tackling non-free software and support issues. The reasons for the "open source" position is not a hate for free software. It is in order to gain mainstream "support" (which is a problem for free software users on both sides of the issue). Ideally both sides want to be shipping exclusively free software.
It really is pretty easy to explain in simple terms the importance of avoiding non-free software and how it negatively impacts users. In order for the free software community to support hardware / software there needs to be the support from manufacturers / software companies. Many companies show an unwillingness or inability to cooperate with the free software community though. Without free software drivers, firmware, and other software there is no guarantee your hardware or software will continue working. The community literally can't support it. There are no bug fixes, there are no improvements, there is only a reliance on the manufacturer for drivers/firmware/updates. Non-free dependencies mean your stuff may or may not continue to work.
Most of the problems users run into in GNU/Linux have to do with purchases of hardware dependent on non-free components or other non-free software.
You can see that across the board with just about every class of device.
You can see that with pure software situations as well such as the non-free Java Oracle debacle where users lost support for Java applications due to the discontinuation of licensing terms which allowed for the distribution of said software.
You can now see this happening again with Adobe Flash. For quite a few years now most distribution have had support. Now Adobe has decided to discontinue the older software and left users out in the cold. Had the software been free Mozilla or another party could continue developing the software. Instead what has happened is Adobe has teamed up with Google and turned Adobe's Flash into a Chrome exclusive feature.
There are very few devices that will continue working year after year in GNU/Linux. Users should be weary of purchasing random hardware or any "Linux" hardware. What users should be seeking is free software compatible hardware. We have put together a catalog to help solve this problem.
I can give some general advice on where to look for free software compatible hardware although there are many issues with getting it outside of our catalog.
N Mini PCIe Wireless cards: Any N Atheros Mini PCIe card is golden
N USB Wirelesss cards: Any device with an Atheros AR9170 should be golden
G USB Wireless cards: Any device with an Realtek 8187B or 8187L chipset should be golden
N Wirless PCIe & PCI cards: Technically any with an Atheros N chipset should work. I would not suggest trying to get a random card based on this information as in practice there are various issues. What you get may or may not work.
USB Bluetooth cards: CSR is what you need to aim for although not all cards with a CSR chipset work.
Bluetooth / Wifi combo Mini PCIe cards: The cards with an Atheros wifi and an Atheros bluetooth chipset are best although there is currently no free software support for the bluetooth portion. We advise a pure Atheros wireless Mini PCIe card with a USB Bluetooth dongle with CSR chipset.
Printers & Multifunction machines: HP is the way to go. While there are a few non-HP printers that are free software compatible it is not worth the headache. Not all HP printers and multifunction machines are free software friendly though. While HP's documentation is very good for figuring out which printers to buy one needs to understand how to interpret the documentation. A good portion of the Inkjet printers and multifunction machines are free software friendly. The color laserjet multifunction machines should be avoided at the consumer end. They all require non-free software. I would suggest inquiring with us before purchasing a printer if you don't get one from ThinkPenguin.
Ethernet cards: Most 10/100 ethernet chipsets are free software compatible although not all. At least some 10/100/1000 ethernet chipsets are dependent on non-free software. I have no suggestions as to how to locate free software compatible cards here. We do sell both 10/100 and 10/100/1000 USB cards that are free software compatible (the 10/100/100 may not work yet with free distributions yet- I believe we will see support by Trisquel's 6 release though).
USB sound cards: Most should work with free software. There are some that should be avoided. Creative's newer cards for instance. There are also some USB audio cards which I believe don't work. We have two USB audio cards which should work good enough for most users.
USB 3 express cards: If I recall there is only one chipset for these devices. In theory I believe this should work although the support is kind of iffy right now.
This covers a good portion of the problems people encounter and just finding out what chipsets they have using lsusb and lspci can give you a good indication of the problem. If they aren't using one of the above chipsets explain the problem and suggest switching cards/systems/devices/etc.
ATI and NVidia graphics chipsets are also a problem. Unfortunately you can't easily replace these. There are also problems switching Mini PCIe Wireless cards in many newer systems. This is due to digital restrictions in the BIOS. HP, Lenovo, IBM, Dell, and Toshiba users may want to get a USB wireless card instead. We advise users not to purchase new laptops from these companies. We do have a limited selection of laptops and desktops with many configuration options for just about any price point.
I am a translator!
Hello Chris,
Do you have any recommendations regarding TV tuner cards?
I am a translator!
I think that thinking on a new release will be very important for Trisquel. I know that Ruben has other things to do, but if we start now he will have more time for fix the last things before the release.
SirGrant, you probably will say that I'm not a member and other similar...
I'm not a member of Trisquel, I'm a student, I don't work, I'm already member of the FSF and I cannot ask my parents other money, they pay already my university.
I'm not a developer of Trisquel, but I don't know how to write software, I'm studying it with the task to help Trisquel in the next future.
I'm a translator, this is the only thing I can do now, but I care about Trisquel!
I think that the work to make for the grow up of the free software is very big, and that's because I say that we have to continue always developing, translating and fixing Trisquel.
No, I am not criticising anyone for simply not being a member. If you are not a member for whatever reason that is fine be it financial or personal.
What I was taking issue was the OP and others telling Ruben how to do his job (e.g. starting development on version x now; reduce development time from 6 months to 1-2 months) but not contributing anything.
Again I have no issue with anyone for not being a member. It was just irritating to me to from my point of view to see people basically trying to boss ruben into doing these things when they aren't even paying him. IMO telling him to work harder to reduce release times or start developing the new version when you aren't even supporting his work or the project comes off as kinda jerkish to me. If you want to be his boss and tell him how to work you should become his boss and pay him $$ like an employee.
/Rant off.
No, I am not criticising anyone for simply not being a member. If you are
not a member for whatever reason that is fine be it financial or personal.
What I was taking issue was the OP telling Ruben how to do his job (e.g.
starting development on version x now; reduce development time from 6 months
to 2-3 months) but not contributing anything.
Again I have no issue with anyone for not being a member. It was just
irritating to me to from my point of view to see people basically trying to
boss ruben into doing these things when they aren't even paying him. IMO
telling him to work harder to reduce release times or start developing the
new version when you aren't even supporting his work or the project comes off
as kinda jerkish to me.
/Rant off.
I am a translator!
The whole point of Trisquel is to have a stable release based on Ubuntu. If your hardware requires newer packages than those offered by Trisquel (e.g. newer version of alsa and newer kernel) you can always use Parabola until the newer version of Trisquel is released.
I'm getting some decent money for a recent project pretty soon and have been pondering upgrading my desktop PC by getting a Penguin Pro through ThinkPenguin. I've been comparing pricing of similar setups on TP and System76 and figured my overdue donation would be through the arrangement TP has with the Trisquel team by buying a libre machine.
I'm currently shopping around to see if it is a good deal to spend $800-$900 on a machine that I also want to use for video editing as well and if there are any big benefits at this moment with an i7 processor over an i5. Also been looking for coupon codes but haven't seen any yet.