Interested in volunteering? Read this... update
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Trisquel Community Volunteers
I'm sending out a notice to those who were interested in volunteering with the Trisquel project. Unfortunately I am having difficulty reaching out to those on the volunteer list (some people aren't allowing forum members to contact them).
So here is the email I have sent:
The lead developer Rubén (quidam) has responded to some of the questions recently posed here:
http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/proposed-policies-procedures-solutions
The answers are here:
http://trisquel.info/en/comment/reply/7116/28060
For those who are interested there may be a weekly meeting on the #trisquel-devel channel on Tuesdays at 17:00 UTC. This time isn't definite yet so let everybody know what works for you.
If your not interested in contributing please remove your name from the wiki above.
Thanks,
Chris
Just adding some informations:
For those that want to participate but don't know how to use IRC (for example) you can simply fallow this tutorial :
http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/connect-trisquel-irc-channel
For the Mailing list #Trisquel-devel, just subscribe yourself here : http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-devel
EDIT: Sorry I made a mistake on the rest of the message so I just removed it.
So will it be on the IRC or on the Mailing list ?
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Rubén said the meeting would be on IRC. This is pretty typical.
Mageia has a good example on this:
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Meetings
It looks like Rubén is basically thinking along the same lines.
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Le 12-12-12 10:43 PM, name at domain a écrit :
> Rubén said the meeting would be on IRC. This is pretty typical.
>
> Mageia has a good example on this:
>
> https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Meetings
>
> It looks like Rubén is basically thinking along the same lines.
Framadate can be used to coordinate:
http://www.framadate.org/index.php?lang=en_GB
F.
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I am still interested in volunteering. Depending on the week I should be able to make the online meetings although not always (work schedule fluctuates). Is there a meeting planned next week?
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I think somebody mentioned logging the meetings.
There is something called a "meetbot":
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Meetings#Mageia_meeting_notes
Might be worth looking into. We should start a wiki page on this and post a log to each meeting if there are to be meetings.
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I've finished sending out notices to those who added themselves to the list of volunteers who were actually contactable (on the forums):
http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/proposed-policies-procedures-solutions
I guess we should wait a bit to give people time to respond. Then try and setup a meeting time/date.
> For those who are interested there may be a weekly meeting
> on the #trisquel-devel channel on Tuesdays at 17:00 UTC.
Not sure if I am skilled enough so I didn't add myself to the
list but I might lurk occasionally. Timezones can be a
problem though - 3am on Wednesday morning is pretty early for
me (+10 UTC). ;)
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5AM doesn't work terribly well here eighter. Maybe we can do it earlier? like +6 UTC. That would be like 6am for Rubén, 1AM for me, and what 10-11PM for you?
Chris, you are on the East Coast (USA) right? If that is 1AM for you. That would put it at 22:00 (10:00PM) and I am -9 UTC.
I can only make meetings starting between 12:00 to 00:00 UTC. For me the given 17:00 is great.
I question your TZ arithmetic. If your TZ is UTC+n then you subtract n from a UTC value to get your local time. The + refers to the fact that it will be that many hours later before you arrive at the same date/time. So 17:00 UTC is 12:00 EST and 09:00 PST. Whatever the +10 TZ is that would put you at 07:00 which is a not unreasonably early morning.
That is unless you're quoting the wrong sign and are all living in the Far East.
edit - Time typo corrected.
Here's how to confirm what I say on the command line:
aml@coffee:~$ TZ="America/Los_Angeles" date --date='TZ="UTC" 17:00 next Tuesday'
Tue Dec 18 09:00:00 PST 2012
aml@coffee:~$ TZ="America/New_York" date --date='TZ="UTC" 17:00 next Tuesday
Tue Dec 18 12:00:00 EST 2012
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Not sure who your referring to although I'm a bit of an insomniac. I work all sorts of hours. I prefer the night though.
If I did the math right 11:00 - 20:00 UTC is something along the lines of 6AM-3PM Eastern Standard Time.
Sorry when I said 22:00 I meant my time. I misread it. Yes, I believe my math is off.
> I question your TZ arithmetic. If your TZ is UTC+n then you subtract n from a UTC value to get your local time. The + refers to the fact that it will be that many hours later before you arrive at the same date/time.
No, it's actually the other way around. :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC_offset
17+10h = 3am the next day for me. But you have to subtract to get back to UTC value.
Maybe if everyone posted their timezone we could try and find one that is convenient for the *most* people. From what I can make out so far, there are a lot of people from the US and Europe.
According to my own calculations and some assumptions above, here are some good times:
05:00 UTC:
* 8pm in -9 UTC
* 9pm in PST
* Midnight in EST
* 5am next day in Western Europe
* 7am in Eastern Europe
* 3pm in AEST
20:00-22:00 UTC:
* 11am-1pm in -9 UTC
* 12-2pm in PST
* 3-5pm in EST
* 8-10pm in Western Europe
* 10pm-12am in Eastern Europe
* 6-8am next day in AEST
Let me know if my calculations are incorrect because these timezones are driving me nuts. ;-)
Also, are more people available on the weekend or during the week?
You're right about UTC offset, my mistake. I was right about the actual times.
I think the easiest way might be for people to give the UTC times they can make. If we all talk one timezone then that is much simpler.
People can use the date command to convert from their local time like this
$ TZ="UTC" date --date='TZ="CET" 18:00 next Tuesday'
Replacing CET with their local TZ, If they don't know it they can get that with tzselect.
I can make from 12:00 to 00:00 UTC any day with a bit of notice.
That's a cool command and much easier to do conversions with. :-)
I'm available 20:00 to 10:00 UTC but on some days longer (19:00 to 11:00 sometimes if notice given).
Forgot to mention... weekend is better once I'm back studying. I'm on holidays until March so weekdays are fine for me until then.
On 12-12-15 03:06 PM, name at domain wrote:
> I can only make meetings starting between 12:00 to 00:00 UTC. For me
> the given 17:00 is great.
>
> I question your TZ arithmetic. If your TZ is UTC+n then you subtract
> n from a UTC value to get your local time. The + refers to the fact
> that it will be that many hours later before you arrive at the same
> date/time. So 17:00 UTC is 12:00 EST and 11:00 PST. Whatever the +10
> TZ is that would put you at 07:00 which is a not unreasonably early
> morning.
>
> That is unless you're quoting the wrong sign and are all living in the
> Far East.
This is another good toold to plan meetings according to timezones:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
F.
--
Fabián Rodríguez
http://trisquel.magicfab.ca
I am still interested. As for time, I'll go with whatever most of you can do, because my schedule changes with the time zone I'm in.
I am still interested. 17UTC is noon EST, right? That would be fine with me.
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I believe so.
Here is a chart:
http://www.wsanford.com/~wsanford/activities/timeconv.html
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Hello All,
Now let me get this straight:
Ruben said in http://trisquel.info/en/comment/reply/7116/28060
the following:
One way we can start to work things out is by having a weekly development meeting on the irc, and discuss this bottom-line problems there. I suggest doing it at the #trisquel-devel channel on Tuesdays at 17:00 UTC.
This seems to be only for developers. Seems that developers are very needed.
What we are proposing on this thread is to have more general community IRC meetings, right?
Anyway, for both I think it is important to log the meetings.
This will need first an AGENDA and record the ACTIONS coming out of each item of the agenda. The complete conversation is good to have for reference but it will be very messy. To that end I exchanged a couple of emails with Chris.
I did some digging around: #ubuntu-uk seem to be using something similar
> to this:
> http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html
> seems to be an addon to a supybot.
>
> Frankly I do not know about meetbot but supybot is in the trisquel repos.
> So that has a libre licence.
>
I am sorry but I cannot commit to any of the meetings. I would like to read the minutes and commit to any actions that I can.
I also do not know how these iRC bots work. I only have seen them in use and they are very convenient. does anybody know how to install them to record the IRC channel?
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I didn't exactly read this that way. What he said was that we need more hackers. We don't really have many hackers here. We have people who have done a bit of programming. The difference between the two are essentially being taught something and learning it on your own. A lack of documentation isn't going to deter the hacker. He didn't answer all the questions. We can still ask specific questions.
The IRC meeting can be used to ask questions like "where is the code!", "what is git?", "are there any good tutorials I can check out to catch up on it?", "is there any good packaging documentation?", etc. Be specific. Then document the answers in the wiki so we can point future volunteers to it. There may not be a good answers/tutorials. If there isn't its time to start hacking. Read the man pages, go on IRC and ask questions. Document things yourself. Add the question to the wiki if you can't be at a meeting. Your still going to have to learn to create patches, learn to use git, etc yourself though.
This is still a good opportunity to bring up any problems people think exist even if they are not developmental in nature. There aren't that many people interested in volunteering. Every person who has a *good* question should be able to get an answer. It might be a simple "I don't have time for that" or "I'm concerned about the professionalism of the site and documentation not becoming out of date. Thus I want to make sure we have 3 volunteers before we add a language". When he provides an answer document it on the wiki. We started documenting and we have seen people add answers to the wiki already here:
http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/proposed-policies-procedures-solutions
I must emphasise that I am not an authoritative source but from my
hobby level work towards getting the Trisquel maintainer knowledges I
can give some pointers as to what I'm using:
Firstly, the places to find out about .deb packaging are:
One of the following packages,
maint-guide - Debian New Maintainers' Guide
maint-guide-ca - Debian New Maintainers' Guide
maint-guide-es - Debian New Maintainers' Guide
maint-guide-fr - Debian New Maintainers' Guide
maint-guide-ja - Debian New Maintainers' Guide
And I think the following package
debian-policy - Debian Policy Manual and related documents
Maint-guide gives you a large reading list. On top of that for
Trisquel you need to know
bazaar - http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/user-guide/
sed and awk - http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9781565922259.do
git - http://search.oreilly.com/?q=mastering+git&x=0&y=0
bash - http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/index.html and
http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
The last two are needed for the latest version of the package-helper
framework code. Package helpers themselves are still in a bazaar
repo.
If you want to be a documenter, back at the release of 5.5 Rubén
punted the requirement for updates to some docs. One was IIRC the
Ubuntu Desktop Guide (package ubuntu-docs). I'd suggest you go to
the Ubuntu Documentation Team's landing page
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam and follow the links on
System Documentation (for instructions on tool use) and Style Guide.
You will probably be able to learn a working level of DocBook markup
from the now out of date package
docbook-defguide - DocBook: The Definitive Guide - HTML version
OReilly do a more recent version of Docbook : The Definitive Guide
for the latest version of DocBook if you have the money.
Since we don't appear to have any editors (as per the publishing job
position) we might consider an alt system like fanfic uses.
For my own part I'm 4 out of >30 books or manuals in. I'm still able
to triage a few bugs/issues when I have the time. Many reports
haven't been researched first and one can locate upstream bugs quite
easily. Others I can pull the source for from the Trisquel repo[1].
Reading and patching source takes less skill than programming the
same software from scratch. So if you have knowledge of some
language (C/C++ is the commonest), give it a go.
I pester SirGrant on IRC if I need an issue putting into a status I
don't have authority for. But mostly he actions them in a manner
appropriate to my update before I get around to that.
Leny
[1] I've puzzled out a sequence of 'apt-get build-dep' 'apt-get
source --compile' then after I make any changes 'dpkg-buildpackage.'
It's almost certainly not the best or the right way to do it, but it
works for me.
Since the above post I've discovered that the helpers are now all in git (the layout had changed and I am new to git). I've updated the package helpers wiki page (1) to reflect this. Please read and comment/edit.
I can be active in IRC between 16:00 (UTC) to 21:00 (UTC). Maybe a little earlier even.
If it's before that I can lurk and perhaps pop in once in a while. If it's after that I can lurk but I won't be around.
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Maybe sometime this week we can go through and match up the times people can be on and then make some suggestions to Rubén about a specific time that would work best. Lets have a 1st choice, a 2nd choice, etc.
I think the important piece here is Rubén's availability.
I'm also not sure we need to do weekly meetings. I think once a month is probably sufficient. Although doing a weekly meeting initially might not be a bad idea until we find out how much need there is (if there is a need at all). I think just having some one to document questions and contact Rubén occasionally is all we really need. However Rubén appears to have volunteered to meet with everyone in an IRC room so... lets do it. This is the opportunity people with concerns should take advantage of.
For me a weekly session would be better than a monthly one. In that
if I have questions only Rubén can answer I can hang on for a regular
weekly slot, but if it was only once a month I would track him down
on IRC. Thus if there is demand a weekly half hour or hour would be
better use of Rubén's time than taking a plethora of interrupts at
random times during the week.
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Yes- definitely. If people have questions this makes sense. What I'm not convinced of at the moment is that there are many (if any) people who will follow through and show up for the meetings. Saying you want to volunteer, being able to, and then following through are entirely different matters. That said though I'm impressed that there have been at least a few people who have been making contributions with a little bit of encouragement.
So, what is the final word? Too many posts to read.
Edit: I mean when the meeting will happen and what will we do.
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The meeting is not set yet. We are still trying to find a suitable time where the most people can make it. The meeting will mainly be developer oriented although I don't see any reason other questions can't be asked. We should go over the questions, concerns, etc here and get answers to these:
http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/proposed-policies-procedures-solutions
Then add to the wiki the answers. If you have a question or concern and won't be able to make it add it to the wiki!
What about artwork for Trisquel? Is there an email address to submit it for consideration?
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Not sure. I think there is a person who has been contributing though. Take a look on the wiki.
> What about artwork for Trisquel? Is there an email address to submit
> it for consideration?
The Trisquel Team page points people to hound the owner of art4trisquel.org .
See here for details:
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Summary:
chris: 00:00 to 11:00 OR 20:00-24:00 UTC
leny2010: 12:00 to 00:00 UTC
andrew: 20:00 to 10:00 UTC
malberts: 16:00 to 21:00
oysterboy: 17UTC is good
Rubén: 17:00 UTC was suggested
composr: any time
It looks to me like 20:00 UTC would be the ideal time to hit everybody who was clear about there availability. For the people who said 17:00 UTC was good can you hold off another 3 hours? It appears that converts to 8PM in the UK and 9PM in Spain (where Rubén lives). On the east coast (USA) that is 3PM. On the west coast that is 12 noon.
Give some confirmations and then lets contact Rubén!
Noon is fine for me (west coast of USA). The only problem is my work schedule. It is all over the place. If I have work that day I won't be able to make it.
+1
17:00 - 02:00 for me.
quidam has just announced on IRC a meeting in #trisquel-dev (note spelling) at 17:00 UTC today.
Since no one mentioned it yet, the minutes and log are available:
http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/meetings
The correct wiki page would seem to be