Just a question for all Free Software Users from a Student

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aliasbody
Offline
Joined: 09/14/2012

Hello Everyone,

To start I just wanted to say a big Thank You for all that Trisquel and the Free Software Community archived in the years that passed. I remember that it was thanks to Ubuntu that I switched from Windows to Gnu/Linux, and now it was thanks to Trisquel Gnu/Linux that I've switched to an Only Free Software Distribution.

As I already told in the topic name, I am a student. To be more specific I'm a Software Engineering Student from Portugal (near Lisbon), and I've lived in France for 8 Years (so I speak 3 languages which is not bad at all :D).

I've already sent an email to Richard Stallman asking about the same question, and he gently answered me even knowing that he have a lot of work to do (and I'm thankful for that). But I wanted the opinion by more Free Software Users, because it is a big decision that I have to make.

So here it is (I will just copy the exact email I sent, I don't really know how to say it in other words, I hope my English is not that bad since it is not my native language).


Hello Mr. Stallman,

I know that you probably are a very busy man, so when you got the time if you could answer me I will be very thankful. Before starting I just wanted to say that I am from Portugal so my English may contain some grammatical errors, excuse me in advance for that.

Quick Story:
In 2004 I had my first computer with internet (before that, only old computers (mostly Mac found on the garbage) and no internet connection), at that time I was living in France and not here in Portugal. So when I got my computer (knowing nothing about computers), I start using Windows XP, and never found it very appellative ... In the end of 2005 I tried out Ubuntu for the first time. And I am free of Windows since January of this year (hurray for myself). I still use some (necessary for my school) proprietary software, and I really wanted to get ride of those and switch from Arch Linux to a distribution like gNewSense, or even Parabola but I have problems with my University because of that, that is why I send this email.

Now that I've probably bored you with my story I can finally start with my real problem.

I am at the first year of Software Engineer, and for a lot of professores it was very hard to see a student with only Linux installed, they almost pushed me to install Windows (even on a Virtual Machine) but I decline and had to work with the alternatives (not a real problem here, some alternatives where not as good but it doesn't matter), I had also the same problem with Wrote Works that needed to be in Doc file (I solved that by only sending on .odt of .pdf). The real trouble started with Java, but mostly JavaFX, the final project was in JavaFX so I had to use JavaFX SDK with OpenJDK in order to make it work (but Oracle now don't have them separate, instead of that it is necessary to install Oracle JavaSDK 7 to have access to JavaFX and that is a shame).

That year passed well, but I am really worried about the next 2 years because of those technologies :
- Adobe Flash (for Multimedia Course)
- C# with Windows Forms (for Programming Course)
- DirectX (They start teaching OpenGL 2 years ago, then they switched to Ogre and now they are teaching Directx.. Don't know if this will change but still).
- Oracle and Microsoft SQLServer (Don't really know about the licence of the first one, but the second one is really bothering me...)
(And I hope I don't forget any)...

I know that alternatives to the software that I listed exist, but they won't change soon their ideas, and alone I can't do the difference (I've tried believe me... but when everyone even the students are against you and you even have difficulties to pay for you studies... you don't have a lot of chances..).

So my final question is:

What are my rights ? What can I, and what can't I do in order to continue studying and learning the same as other without having to use those software (at least on my machines). I already failed to one discipline because I didn't use a software for UML with the right symbols that they wanted. I have courses only based on works done with proprietary software (I don't mind to learn, but to be force to use them is another thing).

So what do you think I should do ? RMS Told me to try to make understand my opinion and if they don't want to listen then just drop this bad school and try to find my way with Free Software and with what I really believe, he even proposed me to put me in contact with people in the free software movement in Portugal (which would be awesome in my opinion :D).

When I wrote this post I was thinking that maybe someone who will read this (with a lot of patience since it is a huge text), had the same problem and found a solution that he/she could share.

I just hope that this long and badly wrote text didn't confused you.

Thanks in Advance for all your help.
Best Regards, (From a Portuguese Student, adept of Gnu/Linux and Free Software)

moilami
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2012

Thank you very much of your posting. It was interesting to read.

In engineering education I had similar problems what you have. There was only one person besides me in my class who used GNU/Linux. The teachers were not hostile toward Free Software though, and I managed to almost finish the education without touching proprietary software. At the moment I have only the diploma work to do and it is almost ready.

What I did was talked with the teachers about Free Software and asked if I could use Free Software. If there was a course where it was not possible to use Free Software I just skipped it. So, in the end I had tons of ECTS credits and the head teacher of our program said that I should do the mandatory courses in order to get my degree. It would had meant me to grind about 300+ ECTS credits in total (the requirement is 240) and force me to use some proprietary software. Naturally that was no go. So I stopped doing courses and didn't work on my diploma work (which was very stupid of me, I could had graduated years ago without that choise) untill the teacher said that the courses I have taken are all good for engineering degree.

The positives in the story were that in databases course the teacher switched to use MySQL instead of using the lousy Oracle SQL, and now I am doing my diploma work of Free Software.

I agree in that you have a bad school and it would be best to change the school, especially if you can get the credits transferred. Other choises include selecting the courses for your curriculum by yourself and hoping that the school will allow you to make a degree of them. If they are not complete assholes they will accept it if your own course selection makes sense.

Hope this helps and best wishes.

aliasbody
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Joined: 09/14/2012

Hello moilami,

To start, thanks a lot for you fast answering :D That really helped me a lot to see a different point a view from an Engineering Student.

I managed to not use anything than Free Software (except for JavaFX in the first year.... not very happy with that but what can I do... Because of that I even created a package in the aur of Arch Linux http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=59005 to help others with the same problem even knowing that it is free software at all).

The real problem is that I can't transfer credits, and I also can't change school :S... I can't even choose what courses I want ! (They propose it at the start of the year but when you choose them they told you that you can't do them because of have to do all the first years courses before going to others, so loosing 1 course is the same as saying that you have to do another year of school).

The credits are counted, for example, each year is 60 credits, for a total of 3 years (180 credits then), but the total of available courses I can do is exactly 180 credits.... I can't do anything to "compensate" a course and gain the credits from it which is bad :S..

But as saying to RMS my real problem here is only the money, I already don't have "Human Power" since if I ask the teacher if I can use Free Software (and I'm not even interfering with anyone else), everyone start complaining at me like if I was telling them to start Working for free for the Chinese Mafia without eating for 3 months (ok... that was a bad example...)...

But yes I have to try to speak with them about selecting the courses for my curriculum and try to see if together we can find a solution.

They force us to do group work, and since I started telling them that I wanted to use Free Software, I started to have the feeling that they are forcing us more to work in groups... Why ? Because like this other people working with me will have influence on me because they don't want to drop a course and lose credits... I had the chance to be with someone comprehensive (an old friend), and even his patience has limits (since he is more of the opinion that Big Enterprises should close their code and make it proprietary in order to make money, and that the Free Software movement in general isn't the solution for the problem), so he lost the same course as me because of the same problem (since we work in group), and I am really scared to make him (or another group partner) lose a course because of me.

This is the same for work. I had the chance to start a small company with an old teacher (that only uses Mac), with this friend (that uses mostly Windows because of the Games and uses Arch Linux since I show him that it isn't bad at all), and myself (I'm used to use Arch Linux and Ubuntu but now I'm using Parabola Gnu/Linux and Trisquel Gnu/Linux), and that allows me win (a small amount for know but better than nothing) some money doing Free Software, since this is a somehow "Liberal" organization in terms of Software, around the idea that anyone inside could use the Software he/she wants, they just need to have the Software done in the time asked, and this is excellent, but that doesn't help me pay for my school for know. My parents are paying for know (when I can I pay myself but I can't do it all the time), and telling them that I've skipped courses because of ideas that they don't understand (even if they are very comprehensive) is very difficult :S

(I really need to write less xD).

Thanks in Advance for your help. Really !

I will try to talk with the responsible teachers to see what I can do.

Best Regards,
Luís Da Costa

Chris

I am a member!

Offline
Joined: 04/23/2011

It is a shame that your program / school / professors are not troubled by this.

If they won't accommodate there are other issues with the program that should get them to change the requirements. There is a difference between a tech school and a college level program. In a tech school you will be taught to use particular tools. In a college level program you should be getting taught concepts. Requiring courses titled “visual basic” for instance is a red flag that there is a problem with the program. If a professor is requiring a student to learn a particular tool that is also a problem. Even the language should not be relevant. It should be used merely as conduit for teaching particular concepts.

This is a common problem for students. Most programs fail miserably in one way or another. You'll probably get stuck at some point with a requirement to use a proprietary program regardless of the school you attend.

Before you make any decision to switch schools investigate the schools you are considering. Email the professors, chairperson, and/or an advisor. Find out if the professors or program you will be required to take are also placing any requirements on the tools in which you will use.

After you have investigated your options you'll be more free to place demands. Make them aware of just how serious you consider this issue. Go up the latter too. It will probably cause a back lash although be well worth it should you succeed. I had one professor who was jealous or maybe just irritate at the political actions I took. I had to start going over my work with a fine tooth comb.

You know what might also help is seeking information from religious groups. You might be able to play these cards and force them to accommodate you. Ethics is generally tied to religion. Free software is not a religion although add in a deity and it probably would be.

aliasbody
Offline
Joined: 09/14/2012

Thanks for you reply :D

I totally agree with you in that point ! Those schools/universities exist to learn us how to Program and how to use in a clever way all the technologies that we have in our hands, and not to learn a specific technology that will block our views and our way of working outside (even for those that don't support the Free Software Movement).

Here in Portugal all the Universities teach the same, but they use sometimes different software, they can me more or less open to Free Software. And what they teach us is this :
- Java Console and Visual (AWT, SWING or JavaFX) --> Netbeans
- C# Console and Visual (Windows Forms) --> Visual Studio
- UML --> Visual Paradigm in most cases
- Database (Microsoft SQL Server, MySQL or OracleDB) --> Mostly Microsoft SQL Server
- Multimedia and Design --> Adobe Flash, Adobe After Efects, Adobe Photoshop etc...
- 2D/3D Development --> Ogre, OpenGL and DirectX

The usage is almost Windows, Windows, Windows... sometimes Windows... and other times when Windows is not available, we can use Windows.

I think that the only thing that I can easily fight against to start is the use of Windows in my personal computer. They already tried to make me use Windows even on a Virtual Machine, and I said NO ! Because using it at school if there is no other option is one thing since it is their machines and I can do the effort (Windows or any other non Free Operating System/Software) if there is really no other option, but use it on my personal computers is a big NO and they already tried to force me using that with homeworks, insisting on a short time work (for example, do a work from one day to another) to make me almost impossible to use the computers at school.

Playing the religious card isn't a little bit low :S ? I mean I have nothing against them, and, as you said "Free software is not a religion although add in a deity and it probably would be", but I think that, even if this could work since I am in Portugal (it is like if I was in Brazil, or better (please don't take this as offensive), if I was in USA and use the Patriotism Card to defend myself with this).

pascal@diogoantunes.org
Offline
Joined: 09/03/2012

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:24:54 +0200 (CEST)
name at domain wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> To start I just wanted to say a big Thank You for all that Trisquel and the
> Free Software Community archived in the years that passed. I remember that it
> was thanks to Ubuntu that I switched from Windows to Gnu/Linux, and now it
> was thanks to Trisquel Gnu/Linux that I've switched to an Only Free Software
> Distribution.
>
> As I already told in the topic name, I am a student. To be more specific I'm
> a Software Engineering Student from Portugal (near Lisbon), and I've lived in
> France for 8 Years (so I speak 3 languages which is not bad at all :D).
>
> I've already sent an email to Richard Stallman asking about the same
> question, and he gently answered me even knowing that he have a lot of work
> to do (and I'm thankful for that). But I wanted the opinion by more Free
> Software Users, because it is a big decision that I have to make.
>
> So here it is (I will just copy the exact email I sent, I don't really know
> how to say it in other words, I hope my English is not that bad since it is
> not my native language).
>
>
> Hello Mr. Stallman,
>
> I know that you probably are a very busy man, so when you got the time if you
> could answer me I will be very thankful. Before starting I just wanted to say
> that I am from Portugal so my English may contain some grammatical errors,
> excuse me in advance for that.
>
> Quick Story:
> In 2004 I had my first computer with internet (before that, only old
> computers (mostly Mac found on the garbage) and no internet connection), at
> that time I was living in France and not here in Portugal. So when I got my
> computer (knowing nothing about computers), I start using Windows XP, and
> never found it very appellative ... In the end of 2005 I tried out Ubuntu for
> the first time. And I am free of Windows since January of this year (hurray
> for myself). I still use some (necessary for my school) proprietary software,
> and I really wanted to get ride of those and switch from Arch Linux to a
> distribution like gNewSense, or even Parabola but I have problems with my
> University because of that, that is why I send this email.
>
> Now that I've probably bored you with my story I can finally start with my
> real problem.
>
> I am at the first year of Software Engineer, and for a lot of professores it
> was very hard to see a student with only Linux installed, they almost pushed
> me to install Windows (even on a Virtual Machine) but I decline and had to
> work with the alternatives (not a real problem here, some alternatives where
> not as good but it doesn't matter), I had also the same problem with Wrote
> Works that needed to be in Doc file (I solved that by only sending on .odt of
> .pdf). The real trouble started with Java, but mostly JavaFX, the final
> project was in JavaFX so I had to use JavaFX SDK with OpenJDK in order to
> make it work (but Oracle now don't have them separate, instead of that it is
> necessary to install Oracle JavaSDK 7 to have access to JavaFX and that is a
> shame).
>
> That year passed well, but I am really worried about the next 2 years because
> of those technologies :
> - Adobe Flash (for Multimedia Course)
> - C# with Windows Forms (for Programming Course)
> - DirectX (They start teaching OpenGL 2 years ago, then they switched to Ogre
> and now they are teaching Directx.. Don't know if this will change but
> still).
> - Oracle and Microsoft SQLServer (Don't really know about the licence of the
> first one, but the second one is really bothering me...)
> (And I hope I don't forget any)...
>
> I know that alternatives to the software that I listed exist, but they won't
> change soon their ideas, and alone I can't do the difference (I've tried
> believe me... but when everyone even the students are against you and you
> even have difficulties to pay for you studies... you don't have a lot of
> chances..).
>
> So my final question is:
>
> What are my rights ? What can I, and what can't I do in order to continue
> studying and learning the same as other without having to use those software
> (at least on my machines). I already failed to one discipline because I
> didn't use a software for UML with the right symbols that they wanted. I have
> courses only based on works done with proprietary software (I don't mind to
> learn, but to be force to use them is another thing).
>
>
> So what do you think I should do ? RMS Told me to try to make understand my
> opinion and if they don't want to listen then just drop this bad school and
> try to find my way with Free Software and with what I really believe, he even
> proposed me to put me in contact with people in the free software movement in
> Portugal (which would be awesome in my opinion :D).
>
> When I wrote this post I was thinking that maybe someone who will read this
> (with a lot of patience since it is a huge text), had the same problem and
> found a solution that he/she could share.
>
> I just hope that this long and badly wrote text didn't confused you.
>
> Thanks in Advance for all your help.
> Best Regards, (From a Portuguese Student, adept of Gnu/Linux and Free
> Software)
>

Tambem sou portugues - mais moi je suis encore en France pour mes etudes.
My english is poor and ugly, sorry.

Je vais preferer le francais juste pour la, je ferai un court resume en anglais, car je souhaite partager mon avis dessus, et d'etre sur de bien me faire comprendre.

De tout ce que tu racontes, je crois bien que tu as pris une bien mauvaise ecole. Toutes ces matieres qui impliquent des programmes privateurs, c'est devenu de plus en plus une reference malheureusement.

Moi j'ai vecu ca, et c'est le logiciel libre qui m'a decide.
J'etais en IUT pendant 2 ans, tu dois sans doute voir ce que c'est - ou pas, et pendant ces 2 ans, j'ai ete oblige de faire du flash, VB, VBA, access, windows server, ... ce n'est pas pire que toi, etant d'un niveau bien inferieur de tes etudes actuels.
Bref, beaucoup choses ne m'ont pas plut la seconde annee de IUT, et j'ai decide de partir a l'universite, en premiere annee - cette annee, car de toute facon je n'allais pas avoir mon DUT.
Je n'ai fais que deux ans, donc c'etait pas trop grave, je reprends du debut, et j'espere - car pour l'instant c'est pas sur - n'etre pas contraint par ces choses ideuses qui ne devraient pas etre dans l'apprentisage - ou au moins pas omnipresent.
Je ne sais pas si je vais devoir sacrifier certaines notes, mais ce qui est sur c'est que meme pour une matiere ou un diplome, je ne suis plus capable de faire un effort pour une technologie qui imposerait une privacite. Ce qui me fais dire, que s'il faut je changerai d'ecole.
Je ne vois rien et je n'ai rien vu d'autre pour ma part.

Je ne sais pas s'il y aura mieux dans ton coin, je ne crois pas qu'il y ait autre chose a Lisbonne, mais avec autant de matieres qui imposent des technologies privatrice, t'arrivera pas a passer sans doute si tu ne les pratique pas.
Pratiques les s'il faut pour ton diplome, on t'en voudra pas. Je sais plus quand il l'avait dit RMS - il a pas dut le dire qu'une fois, que jusqu'a mesure du possible, s'il n'y a pas d'autres alternatives, ou si c'est pour ameliorer ou passer sur du logiciel libre plus tard, de s'y remedier.

----
I was student during 2 years on a french school what learned softwares or technologies with privacity. I'm gone now, and i'm student of university on first year - no equivalence. Same story, but for me it's just 2 years out, i think you have to change school, or study them at all costs.

aliasbody
Offline
Joined: 09/14/2012

Merci pour la réponse :D Tous les commentaires sont réellement très appréciés.

Je vais donc te réponde en Français. Je n'ai pas d'autres solutions :S Et c'est bien ça mon plus grand problème. L’université la plus proche de moi est sur Lisbonne, et moi qui vie dans les alentours (Barreiro pour être plus spécifique), faire un voyage vers Setúbal (l'endroit ou mon université actuelle est placé) me coûte déjà assez cher en voyage :S De plus les 2 écoles a Lisbonne sont bien plus "fermés" que celle ou je suis. Ce qui est assez marrant vu que l'une d'entre elles n'est rien d'autre que la créatrice de "Caixa Magica", la Distribution Linux la plus connu du Portugal. Donc changer d'école n'est vraiment pas une alternative :S..

Je ne connais pas les termes universitaires Français, ce qui ne m'as pas empêché de comprendre ce que tu voulais dire :D J'avais d'ailleurs déjà pensé a aller en France faire ma formation (vue que j'ai bien plus de chance en France de faire ce que je veux que ici apparemment, et ça, même en sachant que même toi tu as des difficultés (si tu me permet de te tutoyer)).

Mon plus grand problème pour être honnête ce n'est pas de les utiliser, pour ça si je veux vraiment ne pas trop me "casser la tête" je peux toujours utiliser leurs ordinateurs même en sachant que je suis toujours avec mon Ordinateur Portable. Mon réel problème c'est quand ils me forcent a utiliser quelque chose qui ne fonctionne pas sous Linux et qui en plus est payant !

Par exemple, ils m'ont obligé a utiliser Visual Paradigm (pour faire du UML), ils n'avaient pas de licence, donc les étudiants n'ont eu que 2 solutions :

Solution 1 --> Utiliser une version pirate de chez nos amis suédois.
Solution 2 --> Utiliser la version gratuit qui leur replissait le schémas produit de "marques d'eau" partout ce qui la tournait difficile a lire, et ceux qui ont voulut suivre cette méthode ont vue une jolie réduction de leur note pour ce même problème (les professeurs ne voulant pas entendre que leur clé étaient expiré).
Solution 3 (La Mienne) --> Utiliser le logiciel de UML (dont je ne me souvient plus du nom) disponible sur KDE, ce qui na donné une note jusqu’à aujourd'hui inconnu et un ré-doublage assuré. Cette année je doit répéter cette même classe, et je vais ré-utiliser le même logiciel... On vas voir ce qui vas se passer.

Un autre exemple pour le future (bien plus compliqué que le cas UML - Visual Paradigm), c'est les cas Microsoft SQL Server, Adobe Flash, Adobe After Effects et pire le cas DirectX. Comment puis-je faire des travaux de fin de classe (qui sont des grand travaux quand même), sur des logiciels que je ne peux même pas utiliser sur mon OS même si je les téléchargeaient illégalement et m'installait une Machine Virtuel !? (Plus DirectX et After Effects dans ces cas spécifiques).

Mais c'est vrai que je suis complètement d'accord avec RMS sur ce point, les utiliser en dernier recours n'est pas une mauvaise chose, case, dans le cas contraire, il y aurait des drivers qui n'auraient jamais étés portés en Software Libre, j'ai d'ailleurs fait des travaux sur un ou deux drivers (rien de très important, juste quelques testes sachant que je ne sais pas concrètement comment faire un Driver, ou j'ai du utiliser une Machine Virtuel avec Windows XP pour recevoir les commandes du Driver et savoir ce qu'il se passait du côté de l'OS quand une certaine action était faite, de façon a la reproduire... mais bon ça c'est une toute autre histoire)..

-----------------

For English people :
I have wrote this in French since the original message was in French, but since it is a very long text (my fault once again zs), If anyone want me to translate it just say and I will translate it !

Thanks for understating, and once again, thanks a lot everyone to answer me and share ideas :D

pascal@diogoantunes.org
Offline
Joined: 09/03/2012

On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 20:36:17 +0200 (CEST)
name at domain wrote:

> Merci pour la réponse :D Tous les commentaires sont réellement très
> appréciés.
>
> Je vais donc te réponde en Français. Je n'ai pas d'autres solutions :S
No, no if you want you can speak in english, i understand, but i have some problems to be understood.

> Et c'est bien ça mon plus grand problème. L’université la plus proche de
> moi est sur Lisbonne, et moi qui vie dans les alentours (Barreiro pour être
> plus spécifique), faire un voyage vers Setúbal (l'endroit ou mon
> université actuelle est placé) me coûte déjà assez cher en voyage :S De
> plus les 2 écoles a Lisbonne sont bien plus "fermés" que celle ou je suis.
> Ce qui est assez marrant vu que l'une d'entre elles n'est rien d'autre que la
> créatrice de "Caixa Magica", la Distribution Linux la plus connu du
> Portugal. Donc changer d'école n'est vraiment pas une alternative :S..

GNU/Linux. Je ne connaissai pas la distrib, mais le probleme des ecoles c'est un probleme qui devient insuportable.

Today, for public constumer, informatic=windows and co then makes more and more company, then more and more school what learn private technology like the market because business is business and companies go to school to recruit more workers.

>
> Je ne connais pas les termes universitaires Français, ce qui ne m'as pas
> empêché de comprendre ce que tu voulais dire :D J'avais d'ailleurs déjà
> pensé a aller en France faire ma formation (vue que j'ai bien plus de chance
> en France de faire ce que je veux que ici apparemment, et ça, même en
> sachant que même toi tu as des difficultés (si tu me permet de te
> tutoyer)).

Faut voir, normalement t'auras les equivalences, si en plus la langue n'est pas une barriere ...
- je t'ai tutoye sans permission, je pense que tu peux en faire de meme, sauf si tu refutes le fait que je le fasse :D

>
> Mon plus grand problème pour être honnête ce n'est pas de les utiliser,
> pour ça si je veux vraiment ne pas trop me "casser la tête" je peux
> toujours utiliser leurs ordinateurs même en sachant que je suis toujours
> avec mon Ordinateur Portable. Mon réel problème c'est quand ils me forcent
> a utiliser quelque chose qui ne fonctionne pas sous Linux et qui en plus est
> payant !
>
> Par exemple, ils m'ont obligé a utiliser Visual Paradigm (pour faire du
> UML), ils n'avaient pas de licence, donc les étudiants n'ont eu que 2
> solutions :
>
> Solution 1 --> Utiliser une version pirate de chez nos amis suédois.
> Solution 2 --> Utiliser la version gratuit qui leur replissait le schémas
> produit de "marques d'eau" partout ce qui la tournait difficile a lire, et
> ceux qui ont voulut suivre cette méthode ont vue une jolie réduction de
> leur note pour ce même problème (les professeurs ne voulant pas entendre
> que leur clé étaient expiré).
> Solution 3 (La Mienne) --> Utiliser le logiciel de UML (dont je ne me
> souvient plus du nom) disponible sur KDE, ce qui na donné une note
> jusqu’à aujourd'hui inconnu et un ré-doublage assuré. Cette année je
> doit répéter cette même classe, et je vais ré-utiliser le même
> logiciel... On vas voir ce qui vas se passer.
>
> Un autre exemple pour le future (bien plus compliqué que le cas UML - Visual
> Paradigm), c'est les cas Microsoft SQL Server, Adobe Flash, Adobe After
> Effects et pire le cas DirectX. Comment puis-je faire des travaux de fin de
> classe (qui sont des grand travaux quand même), sur des logiciels que je ne
> peux même pas utiliser sur mon OS même si je les téléchargeaient
> illégalement et m'installait une Machine Virtuel !? (Plus DirectX et After
> Effects dans ces cas spécifiques).
>

Gros gros probleme, je crois que l'education national ne se rend pas compte de ce probleme, et la plupart des professeurs rentrent dans le jeu sans se pleindre.
Surtout que c'est ensuite un diplome national, europeen, je trouve ca affolant de se dire que les etudiants sont obliges de rentrer dans le jeu du consomateurs.

> Mais c'est vrai que je suis complètement d'accord avec RMS sur ce point, les
> utiliser en dernier recours n'est pas une mauvaise chose, case, dans le cas
> contraire, il y aurait des drivers qui n'auraient jamais étés portés en
> Software Libre, j'ai d'ailleurs fait des travaux sur un ou deux drivers (rien
> de très important, juste quelques testes sachant que je ne sais pas
> concrètement comment faire un Driver, ou j'ai du utiliser une Machine
> Virtuel avec Windows XP pour recevoir les commandes du Driver et savoir ce
> qu'il se passait du côté de l'OS quand une certaine action était faite, de
> façon a la reproduire... mais bon ça c'est une toute autre histoire)..
>
>
> -----------------
>
> For English people :
> I have wrote this in French since the original message was in French, but
> since it is a very long text (my fault once again zs), If anyone want me to
> translate it just say and I will translate it !
>
> Thanks for understating, and once again, thanks a lot everyone to answer me
> and share ideas :D

Boa sorta, qu'importa o que decidas, nao tens muitas hipóteses.

aliasbody
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How sorry then xD Even if talking in English when reading some text in another language that I understand can be a little bit weird for my brain but that's not the point here :D.

Yes, Gnu/Linux zs Sorry, I've taught myself over the years to say Linux instead of Gnu/Linux in order to make the people think less and use more Gnu/Linux, and because of that silly idea (that worked very well btw), now I have myself troubles in saying it completely.

They are teaching students to use what the market uses, and this for one reason... because it is what students use xD No more no less.

If they teach students from now on OpenGL instead of DirectX (for example), students will create enterprises, will work for other, or simply will work on projects that are created around what they know best.. in this case OpenGL. And it is because of that, that we can see Minecraft that as been programmed in Java, because it is what we (students) are mostly learning today in Programming School.

And yes it is true that I don't have a lot of choice... But I'm really hopping to do the best choice between the few I have, and all your help for everyone that posted a comment and their idea in this topic is really helping me winning more "mental power" in order to make the right decisions.

Really :D It is so good to see a community united around the same ideas that I have, and this in different countries, different Professions and even in different languages :D (it never came cross to my mind that there was a lot of Portuguese people here :D)

pascal@diogoantunes.org
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> They are teaching students to use what the market uses, and this for one
> reason... because it is what students use xD No more no less.
>

School has to do this work. I'm happy to discovered the system GNU like Trisquel and others, but i'm disapointed to discover so late.

aliasbody
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Totally agree, if it wasn't our own initiative we would have never discovered such great distributions like this one.

pascal@diogoantunes.org
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> They are teaching students to use what the market uses, and this for one
> reason... because it is what students use xD No more no less.
>

School has to do this work. I'm happy to discovered the system GNU like Trisquel and others, but i'm disapointed to discover so late.

icarolongo
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Is very difficulty to use only free software in others places, but the mostly of times is possible. The mostly of professors recommend many non-free software and the mostly students without critic sense use it.

My cousin started the last month in civil engineering course and have the same problem, but the professor recommended install DevC++(free software but only for Windows). She uses Ubuntu since 2010 with the first computer of her.

I have the privilege to use only free software, fortunately. I'm a graphic designer and use Inkscape, GIMP, Scribus, Blender and I use free software for editing video and audio too, with Audacity, Ardour, Cinelerra, Kdenlive.

Don't give up, insist and show for your professors "this was made with free software" =)

People are surprised when it does wonderful things with free software. The people reaction is "Really? =O"

English isn't my native language too. I speak portuguese. From Brazil.

Magic Banana

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It looks like Dev-C++ works well with Wine. Your cousin should therefore be able to run it from a GNU/Linux system.

Since the coincidence is funny, let me also mention that I can speak French (my mother tongue), English (most of my work being achieved in this language) and Portuguese (I have been living in Brazil for more than two years). ;-)

aliasbody
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Thanks for the Reply :D

I agree with you, there is a lot of Free Software but not for every usage sadly, and even if I manage to finish my course without using proprietary software (at least on my personal machine... that one will never happen again !), it will be hard to find a job that accepts my beliefs... here or anywhere else (even if I think that bigger countries like UK, France, Germany, USA etc... can ofer lots of new experiences in the area that I want and where I believe and make me accommodate my believes and my financial needs for living.

Are you sure that there is no alternative to DevC++ ? I'm pretty sure I already had to use something similar but don't remember why neither when :S... And as Magic Banana said so well, if there is really no other solution then your cousin could give Wine a try (even if installing Microsoft Stuff can rage in a so beautiful Gnu/Linux installation can be really hard for the Heart xD

The best tool I can use is what you said.. show them that the works can be done the same of better with Free Software... and yes I've already received a lot of "Really? O_o ?" from my teachers because of that :D (And having the best grade on a course when using not taught Free Software... it is the best feeling ever !)

Chris

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If the jobs out there which you want are demanding things you don't agree with stop applying for those jobs. There are alternative avenues to financial stability. It might take a bit longer to get off the ground although chances are you'll end up ahead in the long run.

aliasbody
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I am not applying for any job for know since I am still studying and it uses almost all of my time. But I am scared because of the future just that, that's why I start looking at it now, even knowing that everything can happen from one day to another.

Magic Banana

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Wine is not made by Microsoft (it only emulates their technology). It is free software and available in Trisquel's repositories.

aliasbody
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I know that xD But the concept of this wonderful piece of software is to run Microsoft Windows applications on it, and this is why I mostly don't use it (yes I'm a little bit radical I know)

moilami
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Heretic! ;D

"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."

http://stallman.org/saint.html

Chris made very good points. I had a laptop and I could do stuff on it and show the results to the teachers. They didn't really care what software I used as long as the results were what they wanted. The downside in that is that you have to master the software you use by yourself - the teachers will be very clueless. That is, however, a good thing too since you must find solutions to problems by yourself and be not spoonfed by the teachers.

I would also very strongly suggest you to spend a year as an exhange student. I was a year in Sweden and managed to get credits gained from there to be included in my degree. By becoming an exhange student you should most certainly be able to chose courses you take from the school where you go for your exhange period and use them to "compensate" courses in your home school. Besides that, spending a year as an exchange student can be one of your best years in life. That would however mean that you would lose your friend for the time being.

There should be an office in your school giving you tons of information and encouragement to become an exchange student. There is a website too giving info: http://www.esn.org/

In the end it is good to remember that even though you may be forced to use proprietary software in the school you should not be forced to install proprietary software on your own machines. That is, do what is needed with the school's machines and get your degree quicly and move forward with your life, I would say.

(One corretion to my previous posting: I am working on my bachelor's thesis, not on diploma work. Had to check what is the correct word. Also, in Finland bachelor of engineering requires 240 credits, that is four year of studies. In the rest of the Europe and US I think it is only 180 credits, that is three years. Be happy if you get it with 180 creds!)

aliasbody
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Erasmus ?... I never taught of that... I mean I already heard of this, but I didn't knew that this could be in my advantage... I really need to see this :D (even knowing that we mustn't let any course behind (too late for me), and we need to have great grades to go there (and money too).

But that is a nice idea indeed :D

There is also the Vulcanus Project here in my School, that gives us 1Year, and 2Million Yens to go work to Japan for 1 Year, that can be an interesting idea too :D

PS : Erasmus here are only 3 months not 1 year.

moilami
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Definetly. A year spent in Japan would most certainly be one helluva awesome year. That kind of stuff is kind of no brainer. If you can, you should go, and you should make everything possible to make it possible you can go.

Hope you can make it, and if you do, drink some Sake with the natives and have good sex and stuff with them. You are a young student only once in your lifetime, above all, that is something you should take advantage of :D

aliasbody
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ahahah xD Nice advices indeed :D

You are right, I need to take this unique opportunity :D

Thanks a lot for all the advices ^_^

pascal@diogoantunes.org
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:04:28 +0200 (CEST)
name at domain wrote:

> Erasmus ?... I never taught of that... I mean I already heard of this, but I
> didn't knew that this could be in my advantage... I really need to see this
> :D (even knowing that we mustn't let any course behind (too late for me), and
> we need to have great grades to go there (and money too).
>
> But that is a nice idea indeed :D
>
> There is also the Vulcanus Project here in my School, that gives us 1Year,
> and 2Million Yens to go work to Japan for 1 Year, that can be an interesting
> idea too :D
>

> PS : Erasmus here are only 3 months not 1 year.

Are you sure ? i think is at least 6 months, if you have your semester, you have more 6 months.

aliasbody
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The last time I saw it, it was only 3 months :S... But I will confirm that in the beginning of the year.

If I am very lucky, and if I work hard I could do Erasmus this year and going to Japan in the next Year (ok maybe I am see something too far for what I can archive but dreaming is not bad if we don't let ourself go down by the fear of not being able to do X or Y :D)

pascal@diogoantunes.org
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On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:27:42 +0200 (CEST)
name at domain wrote:

> The last time I saw it, it was only 3 months :S... But I will confirm that in
> the beginning of the year.
>
> If I am very lucky, and if I work hard I could do Erasmus this year and going
> to Japan in the next Year (ok maybe I am see something too far for what I can
> archive but dreaming is not bad if we don't let ourself go down by the fear
> of not being able to do X or Y :D)

For erasmus you have to give some paperwork, one year before the study travel.
On france, folders are back about march.

aliasbody
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Didn't knew about that :S... I really need to inform myself about that quickly then.

leny2010

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IIRC Mono uses libwine to provide a .Net Winforms API.

Wine also provides a DirectX 9 replacement. That is AIUI how some of the proprietary virtualization solutions provide virtual 3D graphics (they hack the Wine source to work with a proprietary interface provided by the virtual machine as opposed to simulating 3D hardware).

Oracle have MySQL in direct competition with Microsoft SQL Server

http://www.oracle.com/us/products/mysql/index.htm

Last I saw of it (over 11 years ago) Microsoft SQL Server was a sorry inadequate beast. Ask your professors if they'll mark the same assignments / class work done in 'Oracle's MySQL.' :-)

Also ask them if they'll accept HTML5 (Canvas etc.), SVG and Javascript instead of Flash for your multimedia. I helped out a local University two or three years ago and their 'experience year' students (i.e. after the first two years of their course) in the same office couldn't do anything in Photoshop I couldn't in GIMP and I'm no GIMP expert.

With all of these things getting a checklist of what you're supposed to learn and be able to demonstrate at the end of the course will help people in the free software community recommend the right free solution for your needs.

aliasbody
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Hi Thanks for the reply :D

I didn't saw the problem from that kind of view... I think that I will send an email for the professors of the courses that force us to use those technologies (or other that I can't remember), to make a change if possible.

PS : I think that the big problem will be the Flash-to-HTML5, because professors just love to teach students to drag-and-drop instead of code-and-code... let's see how this will finish xD

Thanks once again :D

leny2010

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Check what Flash features you need to be able to demonstrate. It may be that you can get away with mtasc and Gnash/Lightspark.

I've emailed a friend who might be able to help with free software UML tools. But as a start Eclipse is free software and almost a standard in the industry and they have a list here:

http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/mdt/?project=uml2

aliasbody
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I've already seen that plugin to Eclipse somewhere but I don't remember where... I really need to give it a better look before the class begin :D

Thanks for the help ^_^

Alexander Stephen Thomas Ross
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Stuff school. Stupid institution to zombieafly imhumans to do what there
are told. Home Education! If they are still teaching trash/flash they
really are obsolete. I've been to private then state schools. In the UK.
I am not leaning about engineering. Left school at the end of year 8. I
am now 17 years old.

aliasbody
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Thanks for you reply :D

The only solution I see is to have an external financial support (by finding a job that is in accord with what I believe, or even just make some Free Software and sell it for example, or ask for donation like most of the software out there), and then make "my rules"... but until that time I really need to conform to this stupid education oriented not to educate us but to make us monkeys ready to repeat tasks in our future works.

5gon12eder
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I was very shocked and angry when reading how narrow mined your school seems to be. Maybe things are different in France but I suspect you just had exceptional bad luck with the school you've ended up with. I'm in Germany (more precisely, at the KIT) and after the second semester they wouldn't have forced me to use a single proprietary tool yet. Maybe this is just huge luck that I haven't been aware of until now. Many professors here would suggest using tool X which, most of the time, already is free software but wouldn't mind if we'd use a different one if we could achieve the same goal with it. For example, in our software engineering class we were recommended to use Subversion for version control but had the freedom to use any other tool we'd prefer. (Some folks would use Git instead.) Quite understandably, the instructors can't offer help for all tools out there but if you are fine with free software, you will certainly be fine with teaching yourself via RTFM. (Which, by the way, might be quite superior to what is offered in some classes.)

If you could imagine spending a year in Germany, please let me know if I can help you with any organisational stuff. I can't promise that there are no classes here that require using certain tools but at very least, I could find out for you in advance.

I can't really believe you are the only student in your class that is in free software. Do you have any mailing lists for the class attendants? We've had some (technical) discussions about free software on ours. I think using them to ask who would collaborate with you using only free tools would be perfectly legitimate use. (And if it would happen on our list, I'd definitely know at least one person who would reply.)

As you've mentioned yourself, I don't think that just learning a proprietary technology is an entirely bad thing in itself. Quite the contrary, I think a good software engineer should know about as many technologies as possible; even if only to collect arguments against a crappy proprietary tool for the next discussion. Our university offers so-called pools with many computers running all kinds of operating systems. So if I'd like to try something out, I could go there any time without installing the proprietary product on my own machine.

All the best for you and for your freedom!

aliasbody
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To start, thanks a lot for you reply, every idea, suggestion, and support is very welcome for me right know :D

I never went to Germany but I've learn a few words in France (not enough to have a simple conversation which is bad, I really regret the fact that I didn't take the opportunity to learn German). And thank you for your proposal :D I will try to remember if the chance appears to go spend sometime working or even studying in Germany :D

My university has 2 problems... And those are not invented ones (I had a bad time myself believing that this was true but it is 100% true).

1 - Only 2 people in the whole Engineering Program (since on my University we also have other formations like Multimedia, Nursing, Networks etc..), and this across the 3 years, love what they are doing... the others are just here because... euh... I don't really know why to be honest :S... And this is quite sad to begin with.. I was hopping (in my day-dream) for a school, like in the movies, with a camp Pro-Windows, another Pro-Mac, and another Pro-Gnu/Linux (divided by the "I don't care about freedom" camp, and the "Only Free Software" camp), something nice like this... but it turned out that this was a pure lie (maybe like you said, I'm only very unlucky..). PS : The only two persons are me and my friend that only uses Arch Linux 1 hour a month (maybe less) because he uses simply what works the best... and since he plays games a lot then he mostly uses Windows. And yes there is no other person using Gnu/Linux daily.. the last person that I know that uses Gnu/Linux daily is my Ex-Girlfriend, but that's another history.

2 - This course is about doing what they want you to do in order to go to work knowing what they want you to know... Nothing more... Nothing else. And this is sad, because school here in Portugal (and almost everywhere else) turned out to be around the idea of getting a job, and nothing more than that... And even at that they fail ! I have already worked (as a student) on some enterprises, related to Computer Programming or not (like a bank), and I never seen anyone using Microsoft SQL Server for their database... so..

The real problem, is that, even if I open my mind and let them teach what they want, with the tools they want, I finish to learning absolutely nothing... I finished the first year in July and I came to home knowing that what they told be I already knew.. and this is quite sad... but what can I do :S

Chris

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Take advantage of your hirer education to learn what you want to learn regardless of what is being taught. Your “education” and grades be dammed. It is unlikely it'll matter later on anyway. At least if you have the initiative to go your own way. The fact that you've switched to GNU/Linux and now Trisquel is suggestive of your future success. Worry less about what they are making you do (do the bare minimum) and then focus on what you want to do.

Writing in a different language than that of your peers also has many benefits. Some professors will consider looking at others code cheating. I wouldn't. I call that LEARNING. At the end of the day your education should be about picking up the concepts and being able to implement them in whatever language is right for the job. You'll be way ahead if you can transition conceptually from one language or technology to another.

As far as what I think about your professors. Your professors are lazy. It's much easier to to force students into a particular technology or language than to teach transferable concepts. The teachers should be teaching and demonstrating concepts. Then leaving it up to the students to figure out implementation.

aliasbody
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Thanks for the reply :D

In my school teachers let the students work with others and see their code, but they do 2 things :

1 - They have a software that looks for all the projects to see if there is a Plagiarism, or better, if anyone just made any copy-paste.

2 - They will ask individually every student questions about the code of their project to see if they are able to do it, or if they barely made a copy from some site and don't even understand how it works at all.

So even if it is not the best solution, I think that they are a little bit more permissive in this area than many, which is somehow nice.

For example I received a lot of emails from students that don't graduated at a specific course, sending me an email so I can send them my whole project. I really want to, but I know that they will just copy-paste the code without learning how it works, so I am really divided with "Share the Code to help your neighbour", and "Do not share the code because they will not learn how to do it after that by themselves, but propose your help for the project and anything that they need with programming and others".

Thanks once again for your suggestions and your support :D

svanleent
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When I was reading the original post and replies, it only strengthens me in my believe that no only you are struggling with the problems proprietary software brings along, but it also appears that you are caught by "modern" politics. It appears to me that your university, similar to other universities in Europe, is ran like a business rather than a place to really gather understanding and knowledge about the science itself.

The knowledge has declined the past decade from being excellent to mediocre, to say the least, let alone the understanding that they should teach you what computer science is (whether it's bachelor or master doesn't matter), rather than teaching you one or the other software component or language.

I have my own experience with this nonsense, as I was forced to learn Java in a Sybase environment. The only difference was that my teachers where as dissatisfied as I was myself.

I believe the Free Software movement needs to be much stronger in Europe (which is a truly proprietary dominated area).

I hope you will be able to change things mildly, and try to find allies, even if they are so few, to guide you.

aliasbody
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Thanks for the reply :D

Like I said in the last reply, my university (like many others in Europe, and all around the world), are only around the idea of getting a job, and they don't teach us any more how to program (or anything else), but how to use the tool that we will mostly use when arriving to the market, and this is why we have young people that are not interested in what they are doing but can have better grades than others...

In my opinion if the Free Software Movement wants to be more strong it needs more alternative software. I know that this is some stupid conclusion that everyone knows, but I think that this must be better organized, like for example, RMS on his response to my email told me about a Portuguese Free Software Movement, and, to be honest, I've already searched in the web I didn't found anything like that :S...

There is no entity that I could send an email talking about my problem that could take an action directly in the "field". And even if there was any, would they have enough resources ?... Could they help me (or anyone else here in Portugal with the same problem) or would they need more help before anything ?

That is the real question... We have alternatives ! But they are not known by the people. And the better example I can give you is that, when I was younger and got my first computer with Internet and my first Gnu/Linus Distribution (Ubuntu), using it daily was very painful even when using Proprietary Software :S.. But now I can just take an USB-Pen with Trisquel or even Parabola, install it, and be sure that I can do all that I've already done before :D And this is awesome :D But it is only a beginning ^_^

Chris

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If there is no such group (hard to believe) start one. Take a look at the Latin America Group as an example:

http://www.fsfla.org

You don't need to hold regular meetings. Just setup a group with a mailing list and/or forum. Then start contacting whatever groups and organizations are willing to have you come and speak.

Talk to them about what the issues are. What digital restrictions are, what the free software foundation does, why free software matters, etc.

aliasbody
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I don't know if they isn't any, I just know that RMS talked about them on the response email but I didn't find them anywhere :S...

But thank you for the suggestion maybe I should start directly with something in my school to start to appeal people showing them the benefits of using Free Software. Maybe the changed needed can start that way.

svanleent
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There is the FSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe.) But the problem of free software is similary to the problems my political party in the Netherlands (Socialist Party) is exposed to.

People have all kinds of misunderstandings. Even trying to get rid of misunderstandings in the office where I work is difficult enough. Key issues are:
- Do we have a profit?
- How can we earn money?

Whereas I would dare to say that if the questions would be:
- Is it ethical?
- Is it worthy of respect?
- Is it humane?

It automatically enables earning money (probably much more as well...)

Although I am talking now as a politician, I believe the problems which are discussed in this thread are of similar nature and exposes a very similar struggle. Be aware that I have been beaten up, scolded at and discriminated because of wanting the society to just be happy...

My idea for my own country is to set up FSF Netherlands. I would recommend for everyone here living in Europe or another country which doesn't have it's own FSF to do the same. It would also be nice to have a place to bind all these ideas which are being uttered in this thread and many others on the Trisquel site together.

aliasbody
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I totally agree with this, it is almost the same problem for a different thing, but once again, the best we can do (as human beings respectful of others life) is to don't push them as we don't wanted them to push us.

And this is where the big problem is. If you want to accept your idea and they don't like it, you will be put in the corner, but if they try to make you accept their ideas then we will be once again put in a corner (but this time with someone forcing us to change our ideas).

I've already sent and email do Richard Stallman asking him about a FSF in Europe (or even on Portugal, at least that could directly help me and I could directly help them), but I'm pretty sure that at least France, UK and/or Germany have their own FSF Movement, but I can be wrong.

Michał Masłowski

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> The
> real trouble started with Java, but mostly JavaFX, the final project
> was in JavaFX so I had to use JavaFX SDK with OpenJDK in order to make
> it work (but Oracle now don't have them separate, instead of that it
> is necessary to install Oracle JavaSDK 7 to have access to JavaFX and
> that is a shame).

Studying computer science I had no problems with Java (initially used
Trisquel since it had a good Java IDE without nonfree dependencies,
although I had used Emacs instead of such IDEs for Java programming).
Never used JavaFX; Parabola has OpenJDK 7 available.

> That year passed well, but I am really worried about the next 2 years
> because of those technologies :
> - Adobe Flash (for Multimedia Course)
> - C# with Windows Forms (for Programming Course)
> - DirectX (They start teaching OpenGL 2 years ago, then they switched
> to Ogre and now they are teaching Directx.. Don't know if this will
> change but still).
> - Oracle and Microsoft SQLServer (Don't really know about the licence
> of the first one, but the second one is really bothering me...)
> (And I hope I don't forget any)...

I had used C# on one course (with Mono in Trisquel on a personal
machine, in Ubuntu on university's machines), not planning to do it
again. Used Windows and VMware for two other courses, now I know some
significant technical problems of these that I wouldn't know otherwise
(I knew the ethical problems before, not the VMware business model
making it harder to use). Often could choose between using a nonfree
program and a free alternative (or a fountain pen), avoided one course
using nonfree software before learning that it was very difficult (with
big emphasis on working around bugs in that software or its
documentation). From what I read it's much easier there, although maybe
its theoretical kind of computer science is not what students usually
discuss here.

> I know that alternatives to the software that I listed exist, but they
> won't change soon their ideas, and alone I can't do the difference
> (I've tried believe me... but when everyone even the students are
> against you and you even have difficulties to pay for you
> studies... you don't have a lot of chances..).

You can finish these courses and not recommend these programs in future
(not difficult to do). You will get experience that might be useful
with free software.

(Learning on this forum that elsewhere higher education is usually paid.
In Poland I hear that the only good universities are gratis.)

> What are my rights ? What can I, and what can't I do in order to
> continue studying and learning the same as other without having to use
> those software (at least on my machines). I already failed to one
> discipline because I didn't use a software for UML with the right
> symbols that they wanted. I have courses only based on works done with
> proprietary software (I don't mind to learn, but to be force to use
> them is another thing).

If you keep learning about freedom, you won't see such problems only in
the choice of software. Here you can either find a different school (or
none), or educate others about your beliefs and show them how it helps.
I think both options might be beneficial (and there might be others).

> I just hope that this long and badly wrote text didn't confused you.

It was clear and interesting.

aliasbody
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Thanks for you reply :D

Parabola has OpenJDK7 but no JavaFX. JavaFX was shipped as a separate package, but now it is integrated with Oracle Java JDK7 only, not with OpenJDK7 (at least for now).

At least for C# we have Mono and Monodevelop as alternative.. not the best but at least it exists :D

There is a question that everyone ask me and I have difficulties to answer correctly.

Not using non-free software is protecting our freedom that is an acquired fact. But only using Free Software and refusing to use any other non Free Software isn't it closing our minds to the "real world" ?

But yes you are right, even if it's very difficult to educate others to the Free Software Movement, is like educating myself (as atheist) to a Religion (even knowing that isn't one xD).

Chris

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Joined: 04/23/2011

If I'm not mistaken Microsoft is abandoning .net and Mono is no more. Novell laid off the developer(s) that were working on it.

aliasbody
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Joined: 09/14/2012
leny2010

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I am a translator!

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Joined: 09/15/2011

Great! Who would invest their hard business cash in developing software for APIs that come and go faster than the length of skirts changes. Not me, give me free software where at least you have the source as insurance.

Horgeon
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Joined: 03/29/2011

I am a control engineering student in Brazil and have a similar problem. I don't know anybody in my course (save some professors from the computing department, not engineering) that uses free software or free OS's here. I have a course that demands to learn AutoCAD. When I did that I used Ubuntu with wine to run it but since all we did was 2D house architecture and electrical wiring I think LibreCAD would suffice though I did not know it by then.

In the labs everybody uses MatLab. I am learning to use SAGE (free software multi-purpose math software, aiming to be a complete clone of several math tools of various purposes). Hopefully that will suffice but I'm not taking classes that use it this semester.

The real deal, however, is Proteus for circuit simulation. Does anyone knows a viable alternative for it?

aliasbody
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Joined: 09/14/2012

Thanks for the Reply :D

I really want to thank you for telling me that there is a good Alternative to MatLab :D I will need to use it the next year and haven't find a good alternative until now (mainly because I never used MatLab at all).

As for a Circuit Simulation alternative, I was using KTechLab, it is the best Free Software for this in my opinion, but it is very limited compared to others... Maybe there is some other better alternatives but if so then I don't know them :S..

Chris

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Joined: 04/23/2011

You might want to contribute money if you can to said projects. What would have paid for the commercial application? Now double or triple that.