Trisquel 9 Graphical ISO available for testing

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chaosmonk

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Here is the download link: http://jenkins.trisquel.info/makeiso-etiona/iso/

Note that the text installer is expected to be for the wrong Trisquel version at this time. Please only test the "Try Trisquel without installing" options and the graphical installer for now.

Please post here any issues you run into.

Thanks.

paolo
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wow! this is a good news.
Do you plan also to share a Trisquel Mini 9.iso?
or a minimal Trisquel 9 iso?

chaosmonk

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> Do you plan also to share a Trisquel Mini 9.iso?
> or a minimal Trisquel 9 iso?

Trisquel Mini is not ready yet, but the netinstaller is, so you can start from a minimal install of the base system and install a lightweight desktop environment.

64-bit: http://jenkins.trisquel.info/debian-installer-images/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

32-bit: http://jenkins.trisquel.info/debian-installer-images/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso

jgart
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Is there a sha256sum, md5sum, and/or gpg signature that I can verify with this image?

boba
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paolo
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Many thanks Chaosmonk

loldier
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Based on a few days' use from the live USB, Trisquel 9 works just fine. I'm glad to see that the volume app won't crash when scrolled on the icon in the panel. I used to suffer from that nuisance a lot.

Good work. I hope the graphics stay the way they are, icons and all.

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chaosmonk

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> Based on a few days' use from the live USB, Trisquel 9 works just
> fine. I'm glad to see that the volume app won't crash when scrolled
> on the icon in the panel. I used to suffer from that nuisance a lot.

In Flidas we used a combination of indicators, applets, and systray
icons. In Etiona we replaced the applets and systray entirely with
indicators, which integrate better with the desktop and seem more
reliable. I'm glad to hear that the improvement is noticeable.

> Good work. I hope the graphics stay the way they are, icons and all.

quidam will probably add a new background wallpaper, but the icon theme
is done and won't change. The main changes to the icon theme were
fixing some sizing issues and making all status icons monochromatic.

nadebula.1984
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I've just learned from Distrowatch that there is a so-called "Trisquel 9 alpha" image for download, so I immediately go here to confirm it.

Since you asked for any issue that we run into. I'd like to complain (again) that the download site (still) hasn't HTTPS correctly configured. I may still download it from an isolated environment from my working space. (This is temporarily not possible, because I don't have enough disk space to deploy a VM or container.)

chaosmonk

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> Since you asked for any issue that we run into. I'd like to complain
> (again) that the download site (still) hasn't HTTPS correctly configured.

Sorry about that. I let David know about this the first time you
mentioned it, but did not hear back. I'll try to remember to ask quidam
about it at the next meeting.

torsten

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-> trisquel 9.0 amd64 iso

hello monk of chaos,

motto: nomen est omen

such an important aspect as a https-download has been up to this day not been changed. why? by the way: the torrent download would last at least 265 days or something.

the default wallpaper of trisquel 9.0 is prophetic: clouds emerging, the doom of an os. and as it always has been: the monks & priests have overseen it until everything tumbles & falls into chaos.

trisquel is dead

calher

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On 21.6.2020 7:49, name at domain wrote:
> trisquel is dead

Trisquel 7 BELANOS forever!

loldier
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Tools --> Add-ons. Add Ublock Origin or another plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/downloads/latest/607454/addon-607454-latest.xpi

Cannot install by clicking on the provided link (not the link above but the link in 'about:addons'), must be opened in another tab for the link to launch the installer.

2020-01-01-110056_553x391_scrot.png 2020-01-01-131008_671x311_scrot.png
Vanack Sabbadium
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chaosmonk, any idea of when Trisquel Mini will be ready?

chaosmonk

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> chaosmonk, any idea of when Trisquel Mini is gonna be ready?

Sorry, no. We haven't even discussed Trisquel Mini. I'll bring it up
at the next meeting.

Vanack Sabbadium
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Alright, thank you for the answer.
I really love Trisquel Mini, it's just exactly what i need for a lightweight and fast DE for my very old PC.

Thank you again for your hard work, it's really appreciated.

Connochaetes
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Joined: 12/13/2017

Thank you very much for Trisquel.
I have some feedback below, I hope some of it will be useful.
Overall and so far, I like Trisquel 9 much. No showstoppers for me. My feedback below is only about those things that I do not like or that are giving me some trouble. They are not representative of my opinion of Trisquel as a whole.

The persistence in Trisquel 9 of some things that have bothered me in Trisquel 7 makes me wonder if developers use Trisquel in a very different way than I, using GUIs much less than I do, and possibly using the mouse much more when they do use GUIs. Things still look and feel more mousy and touch-screeny than desktop OSs of 15 to 20 years ago. I am glad to see that in scroll bars, the bars themselves are easy to make out; I've seen worse in recent distros which by default had very thin bars with poor contrast (the intention was probably to visually stay out of the way) that would improve as soon as you moved the mouse over them. I think such behaviour is not the best choice as scroll bars are not just for scrolling but also indicate how far up or down you are, something that was rendered difficult by the lack of contrast.

If you want to reply, it may be useful for me and any other readers if you include the numbers given. Also, it may help to know that I used the live USB version (i.e. did not install Trisquel) and that I have poor IT skills and mostly just use software without understanding it.

The order in which I am listing my issues is not by how much they bother me, but aims to make this more readable. My worst headaches would be 1 · 9 · 15 · 17 · 22 · 23.


Visual accessibility:

Issue no. 1:
Control Center → Hardware → Displays → Monitor preferences → "Monitor: Unknown", "Detect monitors" does not detect monitor. Resolution is at 1280×1024 px and Trisquel doesn't let me increase the horizontal and vertical pixel count over the values of 1280 and 1024, respectively. I was using a 1680×1050 px monitor going by the name of "HP w2207h" when I tested this. Trisquel 7 failed even worse in that it stretched a low resolution across the width of the screen most of the time, very noticably distorting the ratio; only rarely and seemingly randomly would it sacrifice screen real estate in favour of a good ratio, the way Trisquel 9 seems to do.
For comparison, Tails detects everything just fine. I suspect HP is to blame.

Issue no. 2:
I think the system's failure to correctly detect my monitor's native resolution results in a less than 100 % crisp display. This, coupled with the more important factors of (1) fallback resolution still being fairly high (which is otherwise a good thing) and (2) Trisquel's font size default settings (Would it be possible to default to bigger font sizes on bigger displays and smaller font sizes on smaller displays?), makes for poor legibility of text, straining the user's eye. I wanted to remedy this. Alas:

Issue no. 3:
Control Center → Personal → AssTech → No "enlarge text" or some such. In Trisquel 7 and others, it was easier to enlarge panel and desktop text. The panel had an "assistive technologies" icon that lead to a list of on/off switches, one of which was "Enlarge text", done. Now you have to go Control Center → Appearance → Fonts → Application font etc. This makes it less immediately accessible. In some distros, "enlarge text" is accessible even from the login screen, but then you have to select it again upon logging in, unless your preferences have been saved.

Issue no. 4:
After successfully making text appear bigger, the icons are still tiny. I wanted to remedy this. Alas, I didn't find a way to embiggen all icons (1) in Trisquel's panel at the bottom of the desktop,(have empty panel space, right-click it, select "Properties", embiggen) (2) in Caja's sidebar for folder navigation, nor (3) on the desktop.

Issue no. 5:
Control Center → Look and Feel → Appearance → After choosing "high contrast" theme, look at the panel. Any applications that do not have the focus are unreadable (black text on a black background, which is quite the opposite of high contrast) until you first change the panel properties (by right-clicking on the panel; haven't found any other way) from "solid color" background to "none".

Issue no. 6:
I just noticed that switching back (?) from the "high contrast" theme to the "Trisquel" theme makes the window top bars thin again, with tiny buttons for minimizing/restoring/maximizing/closing. How do you change their size in any theme? There is "Customize…" → "Window border", where some choices are bigger by default, but is it not possible to adjust their size?

Issue no. 7:
Also, is it not possible to force three buttons on any theme instead of just two that many choices seem to have there?

Issue no. 8:
Control Center → Appearance → Interface → uncheck "show icons in menus" → preview doesn't change, and I think neither do the interfaces.


Other accessibility and navigation:

Issue no. 9:
Trisquel 9, like many other systems, has one-click selection: If you right-click somewhere, for example on the desktop, a menu opens, and whatever menu item you happen to be hovering over will get selected as soon as you release your right-click, just as if you had clicked on this item. I would very much like an option to switch this off, because when I release my click, I must be super careful not to inadvertently be hovering over something I don't mean to select, like "delete", "wipe", "move to trash", "format", "launch rockets" etc. I want the first click to just open the menu, and a second click (or key press) required to select something from it.

Issue no. 10:
It would be nice if windows' non-top borders could be made thicker so they'd respond to grabbing attempts in a slightly wider area. That way, it would become less of a pixel hunt when you want to use the mouse to resize windows in only one dimension, especially when mouse movement is set to fast and screen resolution is high.

Issue no. 11:
Navigating Trisquel's main menu using the keyboard is still bothersome in several ways:
Pressing "Alt+F1" opens the main menu.* In the English edition, out of the box, if you look at / listen to / touch read the main menu's first level that should now be open, it contains two items starting with the letter O, two starting with G, three starting with S and two starting with L. If I press "Alt+F1" and then "G" or another of those letters several times, focus cycles through those items in a downward direction (i.e. not alphabetically which I would find confusing, but in the order in which the items are listed), which is fine. What irritates me is that the first time I hit that key each time I open the main menu, instead of the expected behaviour of always bringing focus to the topmost item that starts with that letter, the observed and most counterintuitive behaviour seems to be that focus goes to the item (that starts with the letter in question) coming after the item (starting with that letter?) that last had the focus the previous time you used the main menu. For the sub-menus, behaviour seems to be different; see for yourselves using the "Office" category.

*) The key that many keyboard makers make with a logo ("super" key?) doesn't by default seem to do anything, which is fine with me.

Issue no. 12:
Another main menu quirk: Pressing "Alt+F1" and then several times "O" works as expected, cycling through all items that start with the letter O. But press "Alt+F1" and then several times "S": Expected behaviour would be cycling through items that start with the letter S. Observed behaviour: Once focus goes to "System", it stays there, the cycling stalls. More fun: Press "Alt+F1", then once press and hold "S": Rapid cycling without the "system" stop.

Issue no. 13:
Yet another main menu quirk: If you use an English system, press "Alt+F1", then press "P" once. This opens "Places", and focus has now shifted right, into the next level, so that pressing "P" again will summon up the file manager with a window of your Pictures folder. Because of this focus shifting behaviour, the "Places" item behaves very different from other items like "System" or "Other". I don't know if the reason for this behaviour is simply that in the out-of-the-box English Trisquel which I am now testing, there doesn't happen to be any other item starting with the letter "P" besides "Places" in the main menu's top level (which means that there is nothing to cycle through, so Trisquel assumes the user must be intending to access "Places"), or if it is hard-coded specifically for this item. (It seems to be the former of the two, as "Alt+F1", "I" also results in focus shifting to the right, into the "Internet" category. So I guess this is not a bug.)

Issue no. 14:
Even without the quirks, cycling behaviour in the main menu differs from keyboard navigation of folder content in Caja, the default file manager. Suppose you have three items:
• Graphics
• Games
• Accessories
Suppose you want to select "Games".
In Trisquel's main menu, you would have to press "Alt+F1", "G", "G". (Then Enter, Return or Space to shift focus into that category.) Pressing "Alt+F1", "G", "A" would not select "Games".
In a Caja window of a folder containing the items "Graphics", "Games", and "Accessories", you would have to press "G", "A" to select "Games". Pressing "G", "G" would not select "Games".
This difference in behaviour seems counterintuitive and drains user attention.

Issue no. 15:
When focus is on a window that has a text menu bar on top, pressing the "Alt" key will show underlines under those letters whose keys can be used together with the "Alt" key to select that menu item. (In languages that use the Latin alphabet, the underlined letter is usually part of the menu label, i.e. pressing "Alt" will result in an underline appearing under the letter H in the menu item "Help", which means that you can press Alt+H to select the Help menu. Non-Latin translations often have a separate Latin letter next to the word for this purpose.) But the underlines only show when you press Alt; and even then, they only show with a delay. This slows down the user. I would like underlines to show permanently, either in whichever window currently has focus, or in all windows, always.
Perhaps also implement such underlines for Trisquel's main menu. This could be done either manually (only for the most common programs, e.g. in Main menu → Office, "LibreOffice Writer" gets the W, "LibreOffice Calc" gets the C etc), either by you or by enabling each user to do this; or it could be achieved by having Trisquel automatically assign each item a letter, not necessarily the first letter but preferably one that hasn't been used in the same menu to avoid having the same letter used three times like in LibreOffice's English menus.
The trend of interfaces lacking or hiding away "navigation by underlines" (because they're ugly and enigmatic to new users?) is near the top of what bothers me in software generally. If you open about:preferences in Abrowser, you get underlines which don't even work, at least for me they don't. They've been sitting there for a long time, laughing at me. Vanilla Firefox also has them. Oh, and the text doesn't wrap. I really want to trade away all the forced eye candy (of software in general of the last 10 to 15 years), throw in Mozilla's dumbed-down settings menus for good measure, for some keyboard-friendliness and "overwhelming" settings menus.


L10n / language:

Issue no. 16:
Control Center → Language support → Regional formats → no options to choose from

Issue no. 17:
It is not obvious to me how to enable non-Latin input** using a Latin-only keyboard, something that just works out of the box in Tails, for example.

**) Using Trisquel 7, I managed to get an IME to work, I think it's Nabi, and I used another one in an earlier Trisquel, but I don't know yet how all this works, e.g. whether and how Nabi, SCIM, IBus etc. depend on each other or are alternatives to each other. Settings menus felt unresponsive, so at times I didn't know if a particular setting just didn't work (wouldn't be the first time) or if I was in the settings of the completely wrong program. A Japanese IME in particular was bothersome because depending on something, it would either assume a Japanese QWERTY keyboard or support my Latin but non-QWERTY keyboard, switching back and forth between the two in a seemingly random fashion.

I tried all of the following, to no avail:

17 a
Control Center → Other → IBus Preferences → Input Method → Add "Arabic", "Russian", "Japanese" or whatever suits you. (Is Korean not listed because it's not supported?) → Nothing seems to happen.

17 b
Control Center → Other → IBus Preferences → General → Check "Show icon on system tray". → Nothing seems to happen.

17 c
Control Center → Language support → Language → Keyboard method input system → Choose anything. → Nothing seems to happen.


Others:

Issue no. 18:
Control Center → Language support: This immediately launches "Checking available language support" every time. There should at the very least be a button to cancel the check. The check should either (1) only start after asking the user (but having to click through this question wastes the users' time) or (2) should only start on demand. Just let me get to the options already.


The next two annoyances are not so much about Trisquel as they are about just Abrowser:

Issue no. 19:
Abrowser → about:addons → Extensions → click "Find more extensions" → Expected behaviour: Trisquel's Abrowser add-on repository opens, perhaps in a new tab/window. Observed behaviour: Nothing seems to happen.

Issue no. 20:
Is there a browser that has makes it easy to switch javascript and images on and off, and provides an indicator for the current status? I can use about:config (which, by the way, should have a clue for how to get the focus into its own search bar using the keyboard) to toggle "javascript.enabled", but what can I use against images? Abrowser's repository of add-ons has "Image Block" – "Image Block adds a button that allows you to easily toggle images on and off in your browser." Like so many other popular and unpopular add-ons (including EFF.org add-ons, Decentraleyes, and blockers for third party requests), you cannot use it without granting it sweeping "access your data for all websites", which according to Mozilla means "the extension can read the content of any web page you visit as well as data you enter into those web pages, such as usernames and passwords". Mozilla doesn't say whether my permission technically (not legally) allows the add-on to then phone home with this data; what does "read" even mean, why is it so vague, and why does every add-on – even simple add-ons like an images toggler, and even add-ons from seemingly trustworthy sources – need this to function? Also, more (better yet: customizable) keyboard shortcuts for everything from switching off page styles to toggling javascript.

Issue no. 21:
Time & Date Settings… → Configuration: → Keep synchronized with Internet servers → "NTP support is not installed", does not tell me how to install NTP support

Issue no. 22:
"Lock screen" starts a nice screensaver but does not "lock" anything in the sense of preventing access. Pressing any key or moving the mouse is enough to "unlock" it.

Issue no. 23:
I have not checked how Trisquel 9 handles this, but in Trisquel 7:
Suppose Trisquel offers you some available updates. Three of them are urgent security fixes that prevent your computer from exploding, while ninety-seven others seem to be about localizations of LibreOffice that you will never use. But all 100 come checked, and you must individually untick the checkbox next to each item that you don't want. You cannot use "Ctrl+A, Space" to untick all and then only tick wanted ones; and navigating and unticking individual items by keyboard (arrow keys, space) is a hassle, because every (un)ticking causes your system to have a very short unresponsiveness which means that simply pressing "Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space" results in some items being skipped over and others getting hit doubly. Fun!


I think some of the above may boil down to a case of me just not liking Mate all that much, but perhaps some of it could be remedied by either shipping Trisquel with other default settings or by allowing for easier adjustment by users.

Again, thank you very much for Trisquel. And I thank the forum regulars for being very helpful and friendly throughout the years.
A happy new year to all.

Connochaetes
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Joined: 12/13/2017

On issue no. 17:
[Edit: Great success, see end of this post.
TL;DR:

  1. $ apt install ibus-… (Try $ apt search ibus- for a list of what's available.)
  2. Log out.
  3. Log in.
  4. $ ibus-setup
  5. Find and add newly installed input method(s), I don't know if you must have more than one.
  6. Log out.
  7. Log in.
  8. Still no panel icon, but Super+Space should now work. If not, try ibus-daemon, log out, log in.
  9. Profit.]

Still no success on the IME front.
I found "Writing non-Latin languages" (via "All Manuals") and followed the advice. I successfully installed both ibus-hangul and fcitx-hangul with all their dependencies (as well as nabi). Trisquel's manual page says: "After that, you would press Ctrl+Space to turn on specific language input methods." But nothing happens, neither on the panel nor when I'm typing in a Pluma window, neither with Super+Space nor with Ctrl+Space.
"IBus Preferences" → "General" → tick "Show icon on system tray" checkbox → nothing happens.
"IBus Preferences" → "Input Method" → "Add" several Russian, nothing happens; Korean still not even listed
"Fcitx Configuration" → "Appearance" → see "Cannot load currently used user interface info"

I think I will find out how to do this, as I have on earlier versions of Trisquel and other GNU/Linuces, I just don't think it's obvious how to do it at all.

$ ibus-daemon with or without -v variously results in nothing happening and no new prompt appearing, or a message telling me ibus-daemon is already running, or “Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module" / (ibus-ui-gtk3:12110): IBUS-WARNING **: panel.vala:308: If you launch KDE5 on xterm, export XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=KDE before launch KDE5. / (ibus-ui-gtk3:12110): IBUS-WARNING **: ibus_bus_call_sync: org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.Get: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Failed: No global engine.”

And after installing "ibus-anthy" as root, I see it available ("IBus Preferences" → "Input Method" → "Add") when I open ibus-setup as root. I no longer see it when I open ibus-setup as normal user "trisquel". Instead, I get “Keyboard Input Methods (IBus Daemon) is not running. Do you wish to start it?” → Yes → “IBus has been started! If you can not use IBus, please open System Menu -> System Settings -> Language Support and set the "Keyboard Input Method" to "ibus", then log out and back in again.” (See attachment.) Ah, I hope logging out and in will do the trick. But if I log out on this live system, won't all my installs and settings also get lost? So I'll try that when I'm done with everything else, and I might not report back here soon.

I have logged out and back in on the live system (username is "trisquel"; when it prompts for a passphrase, just press enter), my settings are alive and well, and vióla, several changes:

  • Trisquel's Control Center → Language support → Keyboard input method system now also lists "Hangul", but selecting it didn't seem to do anything, I think not even after then logging out and back in, so just leave it at IBus.
  • Holding down the "Super" key and repeatedly pressing the Space key cycles switches between everything I have in my list at "IBus Preferences" → "Input Method". (If it doesn't work immediately, try logging out and back in again, and try ibus-daemon.)
  • "IBus Preferences" → "Input Method" → "Add" suddenly listed "Anthy" in the "Japanese" category (which I had installed as a test candidate because it was mentioned in a Trisquel forum post), and there was a new "Korean" category containing "Hangul".

Individual input methods may not work properly unless you have installed the necessary package. For example, I can now use Super+Space to switch to the Russian input method, but doing so doesn't let me type Cyrillic, presumably because I didn't bother to actually install the matching package. Those that I did install work just fine, 眞心으로オブリガドございます。
There is no panel icon despite IBus preferences → General → Show icon on system tray being ticked.
I have IBus preferences → Advanced → Use system keyboard layout ticked without causing any trouble, but unticking it doesn't seem to have any immediate effect, either.
Nabi nowhere to be seen.

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chaosmonk

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> I have some feedback below, I hope some of it will be useful.

Thanks for your detailed feedback.

> The order in which I am listing my issues is not by how much they
> bother me, but aims to make this more readable. My worst headaches
> would be 1 · 9 · 15 · 17 · 22 · 23.

I will start be looking into these ones then.

> Issue no. 1: Control Center → Hardware → Displays → Monitor
> preferences → "Monitor: Unknown", "Detect monitors" does not detect
> monitor. Resolution is at 1280×1024 px and Trisquel doesn't let me
> increase the horizontal and vertical pixel count over the values of
> 1280 and 1024, respectively. I was using a 1680×1050 px monitor going
> by the name of "HP w2207h" when I tested this. Trisquel 7 failed even
> worse in that it stretched a low resolution across the width of the
> screen most of the time, very noticably distorting the ratio; only
> rarely and seemingly randomly would it sacrifice screen real estate in
> favour of a good ratio, the way Trisquel 9 seems to do. For
> comparison, Tails detects everything just fine. I suspect HP is to
> blame.

Tails ships with non-free firmware, so it could be that your graphics
card requires non-free firmware to be properly detected. Can you please
tell me what graphics card you have?

> Issue no. 9: Trisquel 9, like many other systems, has one-click
> selection: If you right-click somewhere, for example on the desktop, a
> menu opens, and whatever menu item you happen to be hovering over will
> get selected as soon as you release your right-click, just as if you
> had clicked on this item. I would very much like an option to switch
> this off, because when I release my click, I must be super careful not
> to inadvertently be hovering over something I don't mean to select,
> like "delete", "wipe", "move to trash", "format", "launch rockets"
> etc. I want the first click to just open the menu, and a second click
> (or key press) required to select something from it.

Can you not just right click and release immediately, and then move your
mouse to the option you want to select or click elsewhere/press Esc to
cancel?

> Issue no. 15: When focus is on a window that has a text menu bar on
> top, pressing the "Alt" key will show underlines under those letters
> whose keys can be used together with the "Alt" key to select that menu
> item. (In languages that use the Latin alphabet, the underlined letter
> is usually part of the menu label, i.e. pressing "Alt" will result in
> an underline appearing under the letter H in the menu item "Help",
> which means that you can press Alt+H to select the Help menu.
> Non-Latin translations often have a separate Latin letter next to the
> word for this purpose.) But the underlines only show when you press
> Alt; and even then, they only show with a delay. This slows down the
> user. I would like underlines to show permanently, either in whichever
> window currently has focus, or in all windows, always. Perhaps also
> implement such underlines for Trisquel's main menu. This could be done
> either manually (only for the most common programs, e.g. in Main menu
> → Office, "LibreOffice Writer" gets the W, "LibreOffice Calc" gets the
> C etc), either by you or by enabling each user to do this; or it could
> be achieved by having Trisquel automatically assign each item a
> letter, not necessarily the first letter but preferably one that
> hasn't been used in the same menu to avoid having the same letter used
> three times like in LibreOffice's English menus. The trend of
> interfaces lacking or hiding away "navigation by underlines" (because
> they're ugly and enigmatic to new users?) is near the top of what
> bothers me in software generally. If you open about:preferences in
> Abrowser, you get underlines which don't even work, at least for me
> they don't. They've been sitting there for a long time, laughing at
> me. Vanilla Firefox also has them. Oh, and the text doesn't wrap. I
> really want to trade away all the forced eye candy (of software in
> general of the last 10 to 15 years), throw in Mozilla's dumbed-down
> settings menus for good measure, for some keyboard-friendliness and
> "overwhelming" settings menus.

Some of this might be outside the scope of what we have the resources to
address. Issues regarding accessibility in individual applications,
such as the Firefox stuff, are probably better off filed with the
developers of those applications. If the issues are addressed upstream
we can backport the fixes.

> Issue no. 17: It is not obvious to me how to enable non-Latin input**
> using a Latin-only keyboard, something that just works out of the box
> in Tails, for example.
>
> **) Using Trisquel 7, I managed to get an IME to work, I think it's
> Nabi, and I used another one in an earlier Trisquel, but I don't know
> yet how all this works, e.g. whether and how Nabi, SCIM, IBus etc.
> depend on each other or are alternatives to each other. Settings menus
> felt unresponsive, so at times I didn't know if a particular setting
> just didn't work (wouldn't be the first time) or if I was in the
> settings of the completely wrong program. A Japanese IME in particular
> was bothersome because depending on something, it would either assume
> a Japanese QWERTY keyboard or support my Latin but non-QWERTY
> keyboard, switching back and forth between the two in a seemingly
> random fashion.
>
> I tried all of the following, to no avail:
>
> 17 a Control Center → Other → IBus Preferences → Input Method → Add
> "Arabic", "Russian", "Japanese" or whatever suits you. (Is Korean not
> listed because it's not supported?) → Nothing seems to happen.
>
> 17 b Control Center → Other → IBus Preferences → General → Check "Show
> icon on system tray". → Nothing seems to happen.
>
> 17 c Control Center → Language support → Language → Keyboard method
> input system → Choose anything. → Nothing seems to happen.

Have you tried Control Center -> Keyboard -> Layouts?

> Issue no. 22: "Lock screen" starts a nice screensaver but does not
> "lock" anything in the sense of preventing access. Pressing any key or
> moving the mouse is enough to "unlock" it.

How are you locking the screen? Ctrl+Alt+L?

> Issue no. 23: I have not checked how Trisquel 9 handles this, but in
> Trisquel 7: Suppose Trisquel offers you some available updates. Three
> of them are urgent security fixes that prevent your computer from
> exploding, while ninety-seven others seem to be about localizations of
> LibreOffice that you will never use. But all 100 come checked, and you
> must individually untick the checkbox next to each item that you don't
> want. You cannot use "Ctrl+A, Space" to untick all and then only tick
> wanted ones; and navigating and unticking individual items by keyboard
> (arrow keys, space) is a hassle, because every (un)ticking causes your
> system to have a very short unresponsiveness which means that simply
> pressing "Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓, Space, ↓,
> Space" results in some items being skipped over and others getting hit
> doubly. Fun!

Upgrading all packages is by default is the expected behavior. Partial
upgrades are probably not a good idea. If you only want to receive
security updates and not other kinds of bug fixes, you can disable
etiona-updates in Software Properties. If you don't want all of those
LibreOffice localizations installed, you can uninstall them.

> ⸻ I think some of the above may boil down to a case of me just not
> liking Mate all that much

Yes, it seems that some of these things are a matter of preference while
others are actual bugs. I would like to be able to address all of your
feedback, but I'm afraid that we are going to have to prioritize and
focus on the most important parts at this time. Trisquel development is
currently done by three people, none of whom have a very large amount of
time to donate. Can you please state the bugs your consider to be most
significant here,[1] keeping in mind that we can only do so much with
the resources we have? Thanks.

[1] https://trisquel.info/en/issues/26430

Connochaetes
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Thanks for your reply, I will look into it later today.
For now just some good news: Issue no. 22 is solved, I found you can set a user password via Control Center → About Me (which is not the place where I would've expected this to be, I only found it by chance), and lock works normally ever since. I hope a couple of other "issues" will also go away as soon as I use a properly installed Trisquel instead of the live USB version.

Connochaetes
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>Can you please tell me what graphics card you have?

Sorry, but is there an easy way I could try to find out what graphics card I have while running the live distro? If not, this might take a while or require a restart (which would make me lose all my settings).

Connochaetes
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I've installed and run sysinfo, which says:
“VGA compatible controller:
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV710 [Radeon HD 4350/4550] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Subsystem: PC Partner Limited / Sapphire Technology RV710 [Radeon HD 4350/4550]”

chaosmonk

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> “VGA compatible controller:
> Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV710 [Radeon HD 4350/4550]
> (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
> Subsystem: PC Partner Limited / Sapphire Technology RV710 [Radeon HD
> 4350/4550]”

I see. Others here know more than I do about graphics cards, but my
understanding is that AMD graphics cards are generally crap freedom-wise
and often do not work properly without AMD's proprietary drivers.
Trisquel doesn't provide proprietary drivers, and even if we did, AMD
has dropped support for older graphics cards like yours.

Have you tried this graphics card with other distros and/or earlier
version of Trisquel? Did you have better results with any of those?
There may be something we can do.

Connochaetes
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I see, thank you.

>Have you tried this graphics card with other distros …

Tails, very probably Mint, probably Fedora, possibly Suse, Xubuntu, Ubuntu. (I'm sure that I've used those distros, but I don't remember at which point I bought this computer (with graphics card) or when I bought this wide monitor.)

>… and/or earlier version of Trisquel?

Trisquel 7 and one earlier Trisquel.

>Did you have better results with any of those?

Yes. Tails does a crisp 1680 × 1050 px out of the box, and I think all other non-Trisquel that I've used this hardware with did the same. [Edit: corrected "non-Tails" → "non-Trisquel"]

Trisquel 7 distorts the x × y ratio so that a circle looks like an ellipsis. This is the worst and only Trisquel 7 does this; never tried 8.

I don't remember what the earlier Trisquel did, but it must have been either a nice 1680 × 1050 px, or the same as Trisquel 9. (Trisquel 9 leaves unused black bars at the left and right edges of the screen instead of a Trisquel-7-style skewed ratio stretching over the whole screen; it's not crisp because it will only do a vertical resolution of 1024 px instead of the native 1050 px.)

If there is no software solution, I can live with the way Trisquel 9 handles it, and I might try to get a decent graphics card. Thank you.

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> Tails, very probably Mint, probably Fedora, possibly Suse, Xubuntu,
> Ubuntu.

Hm. I think those distros all include non-free firmware. Have you ever
tried it with Debian main?

> This is the worst and only Trisquel 7 does this

That makes me worry that this could be an issue with non-free firmware.
Are you able to boot into a live Debian ISO? If you have the same
issue, then it's probably a firmware thing, but if Debian works better
then it's more likely a problem in Trisquel which we might be able to
fix.

Connochaetes
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>Have you ever tried it with Debian main?

Yes, sorry, I forgot to list Debian. I used Debian – vanilla I think – for some months. That was so long ago I don't know which version it was, but I think it let me use the monitor's native 1680×1050, and I'm fairly sure I was using the same graphics card and monitor as now.

>Are you able to boot into a live Debian ISO?

Let me check. I greatly appreciate your effort to help me; would you please tell me whether you would prefer to look into this BEFORE or AFTER you finish and properly release Trisquel 9? If it's the latter (i.e. there's no rush), I'd delay trying out a live Debian ISO until after I've used the live Trisquel 9 (which I'm currently using) for some more time. I don't want to take your time away from getting out Trisquel 9, but if you think solving my problem might somehow benefit Trisquel 9, I'll gladly do what I can.

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> I greatly appreciate your effort to help me; would you please tell me
> whether you would prefer to look into this BEFORE or AFTER you finish
> and properly release Trisquel 9?

We can look into it now. If there is something we can do to better
support AMD GPUs in Trisquel 9 using only free software then we should
do it, and I don't have an AMD GPU so I can't do any testing or
troubleshooting on my own.

If your GPU works better with Debian main, see if you can determine what
driver and what version of that driver it is using. Let me know if you
need instructions on how to do this.

Connochaetes
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>We can look into it now.

Thank you. I'm looking forward to it, but won't have time to try a live Debian ISO before Thursday UTC 20:00 at the earliest; weekend would be better.

>Let me know if you need instructions on how to do this.

I'm confident that I'll be able to find the ISO, create something bootable on a thumb drive and get the live distro up and running without help. But I do need instructions / a walkthrough for determining Debian's driver and its version – would I use lspci with options again? I only know how to copy and paste into and from a terminal, if that helps.

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> Thank you. I'm looking forward to it, but won't have time to try a live
> Debian ISO before Thursday UTC 20:00 at the earliest; weekend would be
> better.

No rush. Let me know when you get around to it.

> But I do need instructions / a walkthrough for determining
> Debian's driver and its version – would I use lspci with options again?
> I only know how to copy and paste into and from a terminal, if that
> helps.

From[1]

$ lspci -k | grep -EA3 'VGA|3D|Display'

[1]
https://askubuntu.com/questions/28033/how-to-check-the-information-of-current-installed-video-drivers

Connochaetes
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TLDR: No, it looks like Debian doesn't handle my bad graphics card any better. Nothing for Trisquel 9 to learn from Debian here.

I tried an Xfce-flavoured Debian live ISO, and apparently my graphics card, Debian and my monitor did not get along too well with each other. Screen resolution fell far behind the monitor's native resolution. If you are reading this on the Trisquel website (as opposed to the mailing list), see the screenshot. I have not shrunk the screenshot, what you see is the original resolution; it showed vertically stretched across my monitor's height, but did not match that horizontally, resulting in the globe logo losing its circular shape, for example. It was worse than any distro I've tried, including the three versions of Trisquel that I've used.

As you suggested, I wanted to use lspci to test Debian's recognition of my graphics card, but the Terminal did not know that command, apt knew no such package, and neither did Synaptic; Synaptic did offer the usual plethora of installable packages. When I came back to the computer after a break of a couple of minutes, I think the screen was black and unresponsive, so I ended my experiment there. I hope the absence of lspci is not because I chose a wrong flavour of Debian. I had first tried the "standard" flavour which confronted me with a command line; I did not know what to do, and tried Xfce instead. I assume "standard" does not include a desktop environment.

Durchs_wilde_Debian.png
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> TLDR: No, it looks like Debian doesn't handle my bad graphics card any
> better. Nothing for Trisquel 9 to learn from Debian here.

Sorry about that. AMD graphics cards are often a problem. I recently
acquired four used laptops for quite cheap ($40 each). I take
opportunities like this when the come up, so that I can install
GNU/Linux on them and loan/give them to people who are interested in
trying it out but not ready to mess with the software on their current
machine. Unfortunately, two of these laptops have AMD GPUs, and because
they are not fully supported by the free drivers, video playback is very
laggy and choppy, giving the impression that the computer is slow when
it is otherwise fine. Since the GPU is no longer sold by AMD, they no
longer maintain their proprietary drivers, so even a user willing to
compromise on freedom to better support their hardware does not have a
choice to do so. This is why relying on freedom-hostile hardware is
risky.

> As you suggested, I wanted to use lspci to test Debian's recognition
> of my graphics card, but the Terminal did not know that command, apt
> knew no such package, and neither did Synaptic

For future reference, when you are not sure which package provides a
particular command, you can go to pacakges.ubuntu.com (or
packages.debian.org in the case of Debian), and search by package
contents for the name of the command. For example, searching for lspci
on packages.debian.org reveals that the lspci command is provided by the
"pciutils" pacakge.

https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=buster&arch=any&mode=exactfilename&searchon=contents&keywords=lspci

Connochaetes
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Thank you!

Ark74

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Using a(ny?) GNU/Linux distribution you can compare your hardware against h-node db using the: analyze the output of the lspci command

Then if your hardware is already on the database, you can check what other folks have reported.

Cheers!

Connochaetes
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Thank you.

It's
https://h-node.org/videocards/view/en/11/Advanced-Micro-Devices--AMD--nee-ATI-RV710--Radeon-HD-4350-

It seems to have worked on Trisquel up to Trisquel 5.5 Brigantia, whatever that means; perhaps it really worked, perhaps it only worked because they used different monitor models or monitor sizes.

Ark74

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The details are simple and clear.


how does it work with free software? works, but without 3D acceleration

Connochaetes
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>>when I release my click, I must be super careful not to inadvertently be hovering over something I don't mean to select

>Can you not just right click and release immediately, and then move your mouse to the option you want to select …

That's what I always TRY to do, but apparently my hand is too shaky, and/or the mouse's sensitivity to movement is too high. (I've just now looked at the mouse menu; sensitivity was already set to the lowest, but moving it to higher didn't have any noticeable effect – bug?) Ah, no, that is true but I just now realized the real reason must be this: Right-click anywhere on the desktop or in Caja, hold that click, don't move the mouse. In my setup (I tested with application font sizes 8 and 18), one menu item will ALREADY be "selected" (visually prominent; what's the proper word for this?), so your suggestion (right click and release immediately) will lead to that item being "confirmed" (carried out; what's the proper word for this?). In order to avoid such unwanted confirmation, one must be careful not to release the right-click prematurely; if you move the pointer out of the menu and then release, the menu will disappear; if you keep the pointer in the menu and release, that item will get confirmed. Which menu item gets selected upon menu pop-up seems to depend on proximity to the screen's bottom. I think there is no way to read a context menu without keeping the mouse button pressed (other than using the keyboard's "menu key" instead of the mouse).

I think nautilus and/or pcmanfm behaved in a similar way.

>… or click elsewhere/press Esc to cancel?

Unless I've misunderstood your question: Yes and no; I can move the pointer away BEFORE releasing the right-click, and this will "cancel" (cause the context menu to peacefully disappear), but then I can no longer read the context menu.

>Have you tried Control Center -> Keyboard -> Layouts?

Hah, I tried that now, didn't do anything for me (and I didn't expect it to):
I initially only had "German" (QWERTZ) layout, then added (via category "Russian") "German Russian (Germany, phonetic)" and "Korean" layouts. Logged out, logged back in. No layout indicator anywhere. Opened Pluma, tried various key combinations (Shift+Space, Super+Space, Alt+Shift etc.), each followed by pressing the key between T and U (i.e. where German QWERTZ has a Z), as I expected any change from a German layout to result in something other than Z. But I always only got Zs. No Y (as on a Korean QWERTY layout), much less any Cyrillic or Hangul, even though I used "Layout" → "Options" to set a Hangul key (which would normally toggle between Latin and Hangul). And still no layout indicator.
Perhaps this would have been enough if I had Russian / Korean keyboard hardware instead of my German one.

>How are you locking the screen? Ctrl+Alt+L?

No, via menu, also via panel thingy. Solved this by setting a password via "Control Center" → "About me".

>If you only want to receive security updates and not other kinds of bug fixes, you can disable etiona-updates in Software Properties. If you don't want all of those LibreOffice localizations installed, you can uninstall them.

I see, thank you.

>Can you please state the bugs your consider to be most
significant here

Cool, thanks. I like how Trisquel doesn't make you jump through a Gargle captcha to report bugs.

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> Right-click anywhere on the desktop or in Caja, hold that click, don't move the mouse. In my setup (I tested with application font sizes 8 and 18), one menu item will ALREADY be "selected" (visually prominent; what's the proper word for this?), so your suggestion (right click and release immediately) will lead to that item being "confirmed" (carried out; what's the proper word for this?). In order to avoid such unwanted confirmation, one must be careful not to release the right-click prematurely; if you move the pointer out of the menu and then release, the menu will disappear; if you keep the pointer in the menu and release, that item will get confirmed.

I can't reproduce this. When I right click on the desktop or Caja and immediately release the menu pops up and remains there until I press Esc or click elsewhere. No options get selected unless I then click on one.

> Opened Pluma, tried various key combinations (Shift+Space, Super+Space, Alt+Shift etc.), each followed by pressing the key between T and U (i.e. where German QWERTZ has a Z), as I expected any change from a German layout to result in something other than Z. But I always only got Zs.

I went to Control Center -> Keyboard -> Layouts and clicked "Add", and added a German layout. I then clicked "Options", went to "Switching to another layout" and selected Ctrl+Shift. I then pressed Ctrl+Shift to switch from English to German, and this is the behaviour of the "y" key on my QWERTY keyboard:

y -> z
Shift+y -> Z
AltGr+y -> ←
AltGr+Shift+y -> ¥

Is this the correct behaviour? (Note that on keyboards like mine which do not have a key labelled "AltGr", the right Alt key is usually AltGr.)

>> How are you locking the screen? Ctrl+Alt+L?

> No, via menu, also via panel thingy. Solved this by setting a password via "Control Center" → "About me".

Okay, I think this is the expected behaviour. You can't have a lock screen without a password to unlock it.

Connochaetes
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>I can't reproduce this. When I right click on the desktop or Caja and immediately release the menu pops up and remains there until I press Esc or click elsewhere. No options get selected unless I then click on one.

After checking again both on the desktop and in Caja, it seems that a very short click causes the behaviour you describe; slightly longer holding before release causes the behaviour I have described. Knowing this makes it much less irritating.

>then clicked "Options", went to "Switching to another layout"
>[…]
>Is this the correct behaviour?

Yes. My mistake, sorry. I must have overlooked that item when I hastily read the list of options. Иoш iт woякs, except of course for Hangul, but I've already found out how to do that (see here).

>You can't have a lock screen without a password to unlock it.

Hah, right. When I wrote about the issue, I didn't know whether there is an easy way for live system users to set a password – yes, there is – and whether setting a password will cause the lock screen to prompt for it – yes, it will.

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Issue no. 24:
Cannot adjust Trisquel's time.
Have Trisquel connected to the internet. Open "Time & Date Settings…" → "Configuration: Manual"; "Time:" Try to change time by a few minutes in either direction. Expected behaviour: Time change accepted. Actual behaviour: About 1 second after your change, time goes back to what it was before. I have not tested this while disconnected.

Connochaetes
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On issue no. 24 (and possibly also related to issue no. 21 in this this post):

Trisquel 9 has a clock in the panel by default, and you can add a different clock in any panel (open panel's context menu → Add to Panel…).

  • Appending --timezone=Europe/Berlin before starting the live system does not seem to make any difference, both clocks will show UTC despite internet connection.
  • In Trisquel's default clock, changing the time zone (click on clock with primary mouse button → Time & Date Settings…) does not affect the time shown by the clock, at least not when using a live ISO instead of installed Trisquel. Clock will still display UTC.
  • In the separate clock which you can manually add, changing the time zone by changing the "location" (click on clock with either mouse button) does correctly change the time shown by the clock.

I don't know if there are reasons to prefer the current default clock (for example, no leak of location because it does not fetch weather data?); if not, I would suggest making the other clock the default one.

Two_clocks_showing_different_times.png
Connochaetes
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Logged out, logged in, now both clocks show the correct time.

Connochaetes
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Issue no. 25:
Open Caja, the default file manager, or Pluma, the default text editor.
Press F1 or press "Alt+H", "C" to open help.
Nothing seems to happen.

Issue no. 26:
Open "Time & Date Settings…".
Click "Help" or press "Alt+H" to open help.
See "Could not display help / Failed to execute child process "gnome-help" (No such file or directory)".

loldier
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The help browser is not installed.

sudo apt install yelp

Then the help functionality will work.

Connochaetes
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I see, thanks. I think your solution wouldn't seem obvious to someone who's trying out Trisquel. At the very least, help should work as soon as you switch from a live system to installing Trisquel; hope this is already the case.

loldier
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I tried it on my Trisquel installation (not live USB).

Installing Trisquel 9 on hardware will not install the help browser. It's not there unless installed manually afterwards.

It should be included by default.

Connochaetes
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But I guess one must also install some help content, as
Control Center → Hardware → Keyboard → Help
now opens a help window, but that help window is empty except for a message saying
"Document Not Found
The URI ‘help:mate-user-guide/goscustperiph-2’ does not point to a valid page."

loldier
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sudo apt install mate-user-guide

Install this package on a live USB session or hardware installed Trisquel 9. It will install its dependencies (such as 'yelp' the help browser) all at once.

Screenshot at 2020-01-09 05-35-37.png Screenshot at 2020-01-09 05-40-55.png
Connochaetes
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Thanks.

related_rambling
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Thank you so much for this release. I have been using it as my main operating system for a short while. Here are some issues that I've noticed:

1. The menu in IceDove, ABrowser and other firefox based browser like Tor Browser and IceCat has a transparent border around it. I believe this is an issue in how compton does shadows and I think the fix is to exclude shadows for argb with these firefox based programs.

"class_g = 'Firefox' && argb"

https://github.com/chjj/compton/issues/201

How can I make compton changes in Trisquel 9? It looks like the default settings are in a binary file?

2. This is a minor issue but I noticed that Google is the default search engine in IceDove. This would probably not be the preference for most Trisquel users.

3. The program torbrowser-launcher does not work by default. I had to follow the steps below to get it working.

https://github.com/micahflee/torbrowser-launcher/issues/401
https://github.com/micahflee/torbrowser-launcher/issues/424#issuecomment-529723787

4. libSDL2 has a bug in Ubuntu 18.04 that requires the following argument before running a binary using SDL2:

DBUS_FATAL_WARNINGS=0

Thank you so much for all of the hard work that is going into this. Please let me know if there is more information or testing I can provide.

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> 1. The menu in IceDove, ABrowser and other firefox
> based browser like Tor Browser and IceCat has a
> transparent border around it. I believe this is an
> issue in how compton does shadows and I think the fix
> is to exclude shadows for argb with these firefox based
> programs.
>
> "class_g = 'Firefox' && argb"
>
> https://github.com/chjj/compton/issues/201
>
> How can I make compton changes in Trisquel 9? It looks
> like the default settings are in a binary file?

The default settings are in `/etc/compton.conf`. Can you please see if
adding that "class_g" line fixes the issue for you? If so, we can add
it to the default settings for Trisquel.

> 2. This is a minor issue but I noticed that Google is
> the default search engine in IceDove. This would
> probably not be the preference for most Trisquel users.

Yeah, we can change that. I'm not sure why an email client even needs a
search engine...

> 3. The program torbrowser-launcher does not work by
> default. I had to follow the steps below to get it
> working.
>
> https://github.com/micahflee/torbrowser-launcher/issues/401
> https://github.com/micahflee/torbrowser-launcher/issues/424#issuecomment-529723787

This has come up before. If Ubuntu's torbrowser-launcher doesn't work
but the PPA's does, we can import the PPA's version of the source
package and use that instead.

> 4. libSDL2 has a bug in Ubuntu 18.04 that requires the
> following argument before running a binary using SDL2:
>
> DBUS_FATAL_WARNINGS=0

Do you know if the bug is fixed in later version of Ubuntu? If so we
can backport the patch that fixes it. Is there a bug report you can
link to to point me in the right direction?

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Thank you for giving these issues attention. Here is the results of me following up on some of these items.

1. I can confirm that settings fixes the issue. Adding the following onto the default compton command resolves this issue with the transparent box around the menus:
--shadow-exclude "class_g = 'Firefox' && argb" --shadow-exclude "class_g = 'Abrowser' && argb" --shadow-exclude "class_g = 'Icedove' && argb" --shadow-exclude "class_g = 'IceCat' && argb"

This fixes the issue in Abrowser, Icedove, IceCat and Tor Browser. If there are any more firefox based applications they may need to be added to this. It looks like compton is launched with the /usr/bin/marco-compton script.

3. I tested torbrowser-launcher from the PPA and it works exactly as expected with no issues.

4. Here is a bug report for this package in Ubuntu 18.04:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libsdl2/+bug/1775067