What other forums so you use and recommend?

28 replies [Last post]
Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

Hello forum.
That's my question as in the title. Imagine that I want to became more pro in linux, linux Sysadmin, programmer and so on... what forums do you use? what do you recommend?

note: more like technical linux forums not chats, I don't have much time to waist.

Best regards to all
Hugs.

jxself
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Joined: 09/13/2010

I think there is supposed to be a gnu in there somewhere...

https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

Do you Sir reply just to say That? I know is Gnu/linux, it was not on purpose when I forgot to use the GNU. Is that too bad just to say linux instead of Gnu/Linux?
I think if you reply only to make that annotation, and don't give a answer to the question baing made... well... I don't see the point of it!

But sure is Gnu/Linux not just linux. You have reason on that, my fault!

albertoefg
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Joined: 04/21/2016

In
defense of my friend Jxself

You asked for technical resources:

1.- Calling things by its name is really important for a technical person. From doctors, to mathematicians, to sysadmins. It is important for all of them to use proper technical names related to their profession in order for them to express the exact thing they want to say.

2.- The article was written by Richard M. Stallman, probably the most important person on the GNU/Linux community, both technical,(as he decided a lot of important stuff of how the GNU system works), and morally (as his opinions matter a lot for the community).

3.- The article speaks of technical matters, as it explains the difference between a Full Operating System and a Kernel.

4.- That website is full of technical resources that will help you to improve your knowledge of topics of the GNU System, like the sometimes wrongly called linux terminal, that in reality is GNU Bash, (just type help on your terminal and see the input). See: https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/

5.- That same website is full of resources that will help you to understand the legal aspects of free software licenses, that by your line of work, you will probably need at least have some understanding of them. See https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html#TheGNUsystem and also see https://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copyleft.html

So I think Jxself was trying to help you rather than "just saying that", and he gave you actually a really good answer.

But I do think is bad for you to say just "linux", if you want to improve your technical knowledge of a system is important to at minimum know its name and use it correctly. Every teacher in every school, no matter the area, will force you to do that.

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

Is this a religious site or what? have I committed some sort of sacrilege? have I to prove my faith to Gnu/linux or something? Is this some sort of "if you aren’t with me you are against me"??? And imagine that I disagree with some points, can I disagree??? this is getting ridiculous...
Dude, if I go out there and an acquaintance of mine ask me about "what is that strange OS that you use", it is more simple to me respond him: "It's linux" rather than Gnu/linux. If he some day she/he wants to install linux I suggest mint because it's more easy (that's what I've done with my helder brother). Then some day I can make a difference and talk him about totally free software and Gnu. That's what I normally do.
Plus I have a total respect and admiration for Dr. Richard Stallman and his work, and I believe you can not judge me on that.
And no, your friend didn't answer the question being made just wrote a clever annotation. One that I already knew.

Soon.to.be.Free
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Joined: 07/03/2016

I can understand your anger, Takumi13. Personally, although there are a few points where I feel inclined to disagree with you, I honestly also feel like your frustration may be one that many GNU/Linux users-to-be share and consequently drives them out. However, please also note I do not wish to imply suspicion of malice. Particularly given the fact that we have to half-compete half-co-operate with true Open Source fans, it can become very tempting to try and protect against dilution of the movement, hence (in my opinion) the tendency for such notes to be applied consistently.

Firstly, out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you find "Linux" easier to say than "GNU/Linux"? It's obviously one syllable shorter (two if you break the gn), but I find it interesting that you find it harder to say.

Secondly, please be aware "GNU/Linux" is no more correct in the technical sense than "Linux" for the system. Whilst it is a fairer and more descriptive name, and so I strongly encourage you to use it in communications with others, both are equally good at communicating the intended meaning and equally vague for stating which OS you use. Please (unless you're discussing the whole family of OSes) avoid my pet peeve and give a name when you only mean one distro. When discussing the actual kernel though, as I'm sure you know, "GNU/Linux" is blatantly incorrect.

Finally, in regards to fora, I can't give you much advice. The above suggestion to read the documentation for BASH and other key utilities is a good one, although it is rather opaque and obviously not a forum. For programming, naming a specific language would probably be of great assistance. Also, once again in the wrong format (sorry!), the "Linux" (their words) system administrator's guide book, released under the GDFL, seems quite good. I got a copy with a magazine a while ago, and haven't read it, but I suppose it can't be terrible if it's distributed with a popular "Linux" (once again, not my words) magazine. It's available online here:
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/sag/html/index.html

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

->Firstly, out of curiosity, is there any particular reason you find "Linux" easier to say than "GNU/Linux"? It's obviously one syllable shorter (two if you break the gn), but I find it interesting that you find it harder to say.

R.:I could start saying GNU/Linux, I admit is the real correct term. But every time I used it they go like: "what/Linux!? I understood Linux, is that Linux that you use?" and to simplify I say "yes, Linux". And we go from there...Linux is better known, is a fact.
Now in relation to the debate above:
The question here was that the note was made like (At least I felt it that way, I could be wrong): "You have made a sacrilege, you have to redeem yourself".
And that's the kind of behaviour I had saw in other forums that I intentionally left from. Is like some guys (I am talking of that other forum that I left not from here!!!) have the truth and the new ones have to be submissive, and that annoys me. It's a pattern that repeats itself and don't have to. But maybe it's a trauma of mine...

ADFENO
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Joined: 12/31/2012

If someone already said this, please accept my apologies, but I must say
it again just in case:

When people hear you saying "GNU with Linux" or "GNU plus Linux" or "GNU
slash Linux", you're atleast trying to call things by the right name
and giving proper credit. Please be careful not to say "GNU Linux" since
Linux isn't a GNU project.

Note: Of course you can write "GNU/Linux" or "GNU+Linux", but not "GNU
Linux" too. Personally, I like to say "GNU with Linux" and write "GNU+Linux".

When the people near you say "Linux", you must try to educate them by
briefly explaining the differences in the names that we already know. I
have used this method ever since I started my activism (around the end
of 2015) and it's working like a charm, however, you must insist (be a
bit more stubborn, like how we do here sometimes).

You might be asking: "If everyone asks me if I use 'Linux', wouldn't it
be better to simply agree?". The answer is: Not entirely, besides, Linux
is a sitting penguin without an operating system, that is, in this case,
the GNU operating system. This combination forms the **base** for alot
of system distributions (be them free or not).

Then you might ask: "What about calling it only as 'GNU'? Or calling
only the free system distributions as 'GNU'?". In this case, this
creates another unwanted probleme: lack of credit to the other
part. Besides, not all free/libre system distributions are GNU ones, see
Replicant as an example. Also, as you might also have read here, not
every base that uses GNU also uses Linux (e.g.: there are projects which
use GNU+Hurd; and even GNU+kWindows).

Again, one must not that very few of these projects are free/libre. This
message isn't meant to recommend
usage/installation/teaching/sharing/selling of such non-(free/libre)
system distributions, since doing such things would raise immediate
moral dilemmas, or even ethical dilemmas.

vita_cell
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Joined: 07/19/2015

That site it is not some creed or religion. It's simple, "Linux" is kernel, one component or part of an operating system, not necessary GNU, Linux it is not part of GNU project. Linux is Linus Torvald's kernel. GNU is operating system.

"An operating system (OS) is system software that manages computer hardware and software resources and provides common services for computer programs. All computer programs, excluding firmware, require an operating system to function."

So operating system itself is an collection of programs, user uses those programs, but user supposed not to using kernel, operating system uses kernel and not user.

So, why calling Linux to everything? you can install GNU+Hurd, or kernel you want (if you adapt to GNU). Will you call GNU+Hurd as Linux too?

I saw horrorific things like "Linux's kernel" or "kernel of Linux", in a thing called "Linux Mint"(yes, it's a GNU+Linux distro). WTF? why a kernel needs kernel?

So, when you trying to refer to GNU+Linux saying "Linux", it confuse us. We don't know if you talk about Linus Torvald's kernel, or about GNU, or about whole GNU+Linux system. By saying "Linux" you algo can referring to Android, or other system.

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

You have the point. I learned something from your explanation, thanks.

vita_cell
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Joined: 07/19/2015

I think the same:

Everybody right now, can call Android as only "Linux", ahhh, and of course, it's fine call "Linux" everything that contains it. I just can not understand, why people call Android as "Android", and not "Linux", while calling the whole GNU+Linux system as "Linux".

Most people know nothing about RMS and GNU, while using Ubuntu Linux.

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

->Most people know nothing about RMS and GNU, while using Ubuntu Linux.

That is true I go to a ubuntu meeting every month here in Portugal, and they don't know nothing about RMS and GNU, they only use Ubuntu not knowing that some programs in Ubuntu don't respect their freedom. I think we are on the same page on that.
But I read GNU and RMS FSF site and the other day he was here in Portugal, and I'd go to is conference, a really nice one about surveillance and Democracy.
I am with you on that one!

vita_cell
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Joined: 07/19/2015

It is like "Microsoft loves Linux", Microsoft can not see diferrences between a kernel and an OS.

And the first time I used GNU/Linux, it was Ubuntu, and I though that time that it was just "Linux", while not knowing nothing about GNU, FSF and RMS.

lembas
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Joined: 05/13/2010

M$ has obviously understood that free software is a force to contend with.

"First they ignore you, then they fight you, then you win."
(--attributed to Gandhi)

And they've picked up their weapon of choice, FUD, like so often before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt#Microsoft

So they indeed do get much better along with "Linux" and "open source" than GNU/Linux and free software and spread disinformation to keep the more potent stuff hidden away from the masses. This is why it is so important that we who know use the proper language and try to educate others.

Ignacio.Agullo
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Joined: 09/29/2009

Thought so once, decided to call this operating system just "GNU". But then I remembered it can be used with a different kernel (I tried it with Hurd once, and Arch Linux can use even a third kernel, the one from FreeBSD). So, it made more sense to me to name it system/kernel: GNU/Linux, GNU/Hurd, and so on.

Magic Banana

I am a member!

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Joined: 07/24/2010

Making the distinction *is* important for the *GNU* community (not for the Linux community): https://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html

Magic Banana

I am a member!

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Joined: 07/24/2010

What better place than a GNU/Linux forum? What better time than when somebody calls the OS by the name of its sole kernel? It is not about being rude or pedantic. It is about making GNU's philosophy visible. It does matter. It is no joke. Many GNU/Linux users have never heard of GNU: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-users-never-heard-of-gnu.html

Those who have never heard of GNU do not discover the philosophy that motivates it. The goal of the GNU project is to free users. The Linux project does not care about that. It accepts proprietary firmware, tivoization, ... real problems that seriously affect the goal of the GNU project but that many users never question by lack of information.

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

This is so stupid. If you not call it Gnu/Linux you will burn in hell forever. Am I the only one (plus spooky) to see the pathetic of this debate? All the rest say "Amen"???
I ask a question and somebody comes with a note: "it is not Linux is Gnu/Linux!!!"
And that somebody doesn't answer the question being made wich is at least rude!
It is Gnu/linux and not linux -> correct 100%.
But I want to call it just Linux (yes because of this silly discussion!). I am not a preacher, I am not a missionary, I don't have to call the OS Gnu/linux if I don't want to! If I in my conscience support the movement from time to time (because I want). Nobody will tell me what to say. now that is bee free, isn't it?
This sect-like reaction is purely and simply pathetic and I do not agree with it nor I will ever agree.
Now give me that minus signs if I care!

hack and hack
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Joined: 04/02/2015

Sysadmin and programming?
Iwouldn't choose a forum, but more like wikis, books, anything like that.

I could have recommended things like codecademy but javascript and stuff. But I'm aware of an intro for LISP (for example) on the emacs documentation.

I like Archwiki, For IT, I think there's some good stuff on
Youtube (can't remember the names).

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

Thanks...
Lisp... I remenber Dr. Stallman wrote something about Lisp being is prefered language.
I reciprocate and give you the link for this book http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/sicp.pdf. It's one that I begin to read yesterday an highly regarded book about scheme (a Lisp variant). One note: amazon ans others are selling this book when this book at the same time has some sort of free license there... Anyway is an highly regarded book.

hack and hack
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Joined: 04/02/2015

Nice, thanks :)

To be honest, I don't know much about Stallman, I suggested Lisp just because recently I learned about tutorials directly accessible from Emacs (using Lisp I think, but being a wider intro to programming).

But Lisp still looks like a good first language from what I've heard, though Python (and later C) as suggested by Alimiracle look like one interesting path.

Aprendiz_de_linux
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Joined: 03/02/2014

Hello!

"I want to became more pro in linux, linux Sysadmin, programmer and so on"

i have bookmarked some sites long ago and saved it. I have several links that can help you what you want, as well i kept it to myself because i am interested in starting to learn programming. I didn't before because it was not the right time to do so. So like you i am finding what is best to me to start with.

But before that "what forums do you use? what do you recommend?" to me the best forum is trisquel because community is very active. I tried other forums like debian in portuguese but well... several of them can recommend proprietary things to install and/or they are very inactive and you need to wait looooong time to get your answer...

Now, let's go start with the request of programming. As you don't specified what "programming language" you wanted i will put all i have here. So far the links i have or would like to learn are:

http://www.ftacademy.org/courses

https://www.w3.org/2002/03/tutorials.html

https://training.linuxfoundation.org/

http://www.tldp.org/LDP/nag2/index.html

http://www.tldp.org/guides.html

http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses

http://www.academictutorials.com/w3c/

http://www.oreilly.com/

http://linux-training.be/

https://www.edx.org/

Of course... some sites are more useful than others but anyway i placed here. Next:

https://wiki.debian.org/ProgrammingLanguage

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eintr/index.html

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/index.html

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Non-Programmer's_Tutorial_for_Python_3/Print_version#What_you_should_know

http://www.revista-programar.info/

And now several posts about programming in trisquel:

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/which-language-should-i-learn-1st

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/which-programming-language-should-i-learn

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/%C2%BFcu%C3%A1l-lenguaje-de-programaci%C3%B3n-recomendar%C3%ADan

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/would-anyone-know-any-online-classes-i-could-learn-more-about-linux

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/want-free-net-programming-book

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/html-editors-trisquel

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/programs-teach-coding-similar-tuxtype

Well this is good for me because i can keep all the things here in case i lost my papers ahaha....

I hope that something here can at least be helpful.
Best regards

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

Ok I'll frame my position in relation to programming and Sysadmin:
In the long run I would like (if I remain persistent like I am) to change my job. I am not in tech area. I've learned C programming a 2 year ago and indeed had good score on that course I'made. but apart from exercises and some little programs that I do in C4droid in my smartphone I never really saw when to use C in a consistent way. Well, then I knew in Gnu/linux one really could apply C programming particularly in networking (another one of too many areas that I like) and even by learning some other languages (python/scheme, bashShell) I could became something and pretend - who knows - change my job. That with my love to freedom, free software, knowledge, real democracy, etc, etc. brings me to were I am know: in this beautiful forum, in the world of GNU/linux.
I hope it's not too much that I want to move to a better job, after all, we all want a better position in life, right?
About the links you gave: Now that's a good list! That's what I am asking about! terrific!
Hugs

p.s. Do you speak portuguese? se sim, espectaculo!
Eu estou incrito no site Portuga-a-programar, sou o Incompleto, intervenho particularmente na seccao de C.

Aprendiz_de_linux
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Joined: 03/02/2014

Yes i do speak because it is my native language. Interesting ->Portuga-a-programar? <-
"I could became something and pretend - who knows - change my job. That with my love to freedom, free software, knowledge, real democracy, etc, etc. I hope it's not too much that I want to move to a better job, after all, we all want a better position in life, right?" ----> exactly my words and feelings! I subscribe them!
Obrigado pelas dicas vou ver isso então!

Takumi13
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Joined: 07/03/2016

Curious I started with C programming and right now I am studying lisp-scheme by that book that I gave the link above.