Chrome OS

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grimlok
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Joined: 04/16/2013

So, at work they are deliberating whether to use Chromebooks for going to a "One Device Per Child" model of education (I work for a school system). I got my hands on it and dinked around a bit. I am quite appalled by these things. It's very sad that Google is using Linux (The Kernal) as a way to restrict users rather than liberate. You can't even install a printer without it being a "Google Cloud Printer" or having some kind of attachment for what they call "Classic Printers" It's very sad that this type of computing is what is drawing people more and more, but that is a reflection of society... Anyway, thought I would kinda vent here. I'm not looking forward to servicing these ball and chains..

Peace
Grimlok

quantumgravity
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Joined: 04/22/2013

I agree with you in every point.
Unfortunately, the FSF doesn't really attack Google the way this company deserves it.
I dont want to impuse something to anyone, but it's noticable that Google is listed as the greatest patron of the fsf on their site.
The FSF really is the last organisation I can imagine to be corrupt, but it leaves a sour taste...
especially when I hear such stories about Chrome OS.
Where's the RMS Site on his blog where he tells people never to use such devices because they are an instrument of restriction?
Where's the site where he complains about the damage Google does to the reputation of the GNU/Linux system, like he did when Ubuntu implemented the spyware? (I know these are slightly different cases....)
RMS, can it be true??

akirashinigami

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I am a translator!

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RMS's personal blog is just that--his personal blog. What he says on it doesn't necessarily reflect the position or opinions of the FSF.

onpon4
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The patron system is not endorsement by the FSF of companies' activities; this is explicitly mentioned on the patron page. The only affiliation they have with the FSF is giving them money. Since Google gives them the most money out of all patrons, they are listed at the top of the patrons page. Note that just below Google are Oracle and IBM, hardly describable as pillars of the free software world.

leny2010

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I don't read it very often but I've seen an article by RMS in the Guardian (UK mainstream broadsheet paper guardian.co.uk ) where he criticises Google for privacy invasion wrt Android. Saying while it is better in that most of the code is free software, users often lose that in practice, so better than Apple but still not right.

RMS also guests on the BBC website from time to time.

Just because it's not on the fsf / gnu etc websites doesn't mean the board members aren't actively criticising where due in other public media.

icarolongo
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Joined: 03/26/2011

Google's ChromeOS means losing control of data, warns GNU founder Richard Stallman:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/dec/14/chrome-os-richard-stallman-warning

Google Chrome OS mauled by Richard Stallman:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/15/stallman_on_chrome_os/

GNU founder Richard Stallman and Gmail creator Paul Buchheit hate on Chrome OS:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/15/gnu-founder-richard-stallman-and-gmail-creator-paul-buchheit-hat/

Stallman: Chrome OS is 'careless computing':
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-20025625-265.html

grimlok
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Yeah, I remember reading something where Stallman was warning against cloud computing and Chrome OS and the like. Which I totally agree. Why would I want to give someone else THAT much control? No thanks. I'll keep my "traditional" computer with your hands off of it. We don't want the gov't in our homes why would we allow a company in our computer?

grimlok
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I for one will stay away from "cloud services" because I feel there is too much at stake with privacy and freedom whether it be Google or Mozilla.

Fernando_Negro
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Joined: 06/17/2012

What do you expect from a government school? (http://www.prisonplanet.com/court-rules-texas-school-can-force-students-to-wear-id-around-necks.html) "One Spy Device Per Child", would be a more appropriate designation...

This is not necessarily what people, in general, are getting into. But, only what the government is forcing children in the school system to use. (To, perhaps, "educate" future adults to start using this type of intrusive computing.) And I haven't seen any mass adherence of people, on the "outside", to this cloud computing phenomenon yet.

Google (as it has been very much denounced by the independent media - just one example: http://www.infowars.com/group-calls-for-hearings-into-googles-ties-to-cia-and-nsa/) is a front for the CIA/NSA. So, it's no surprise that whatever type of computing they're involved in is one that can be used to spy on people/children.

The US school system is even known to having distributed computers to this end. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8D1ORNXPo + http://www.prisonplanet.com/how-you-could-also-be-a-victim-of-the-laptop-spying-scandal.html)

If you all want to do society a service, and better educate your children, homeschool them. (If you live in a country were you are even allowed to educate your own children, that is...) And give them whatever hardware and software you like, that has no spy tools in it.

(When properly done, of course) homeschooling is, not only the best way to produce an intelligent child, but also the best chance that child will ever get to be accepted by one of the top Universities, who have a clear preference for homeschooled individuals. (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/01/26/how-my-child-went-from-home-school-to-harvard-and-yours-can-too/)

And this, not to talk about all the brainwashing and stupidification you'll spare a child of going through. (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/bookstore/dumbdnblum1.htm)

All this, to say: If you want yours kids to adhere to Free Software instead, just take them out of the governmental school system, and give them your own "classes" about this much more freedom-loving and respecting alternative.

onpon4
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Joined: 05/30/2012

Not every parent can homeschool their children, so corrections to the public school system are still necessary.

Fernando_Negro
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(Not wanting to drift from the original subject, I can't resist answering that...)

That's because the traditional family model, where a mother (or, alternatively, a father) would educate their own children (instead of a stranger, that takes orders from the State, now doing that) has been pretty much destroyed, already, by the State itself (and also the big corporations, behind the brainwashing campaign that did just that - http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=98774.msg619595#msg619595) where the taxes people are now forced to pay are so high, that they force both parents to work (or the greed of people wanting to make as much money as possible - to buy things they don't need - is so big, that they're willing to neglect their own family members because of that).

For monoparental families, there can be other family members (or friends), educating their own children, who could help someone with that. And, for the very few cases where that would be impossible, there could be community schools, that would make their own curriculums (in which parents, who had their children going into them, could have the power to decide its contents) instead of schools that take their orders from a centralized and authoritarian government, controlled by big corporations, who have an interest in brainwashing children to become obedient slaves, who don't question anything and are willing (or even eagerly want) to prostitute themselves to those same big corporations.

Putting a child in a governmental school is the worst option of all. (http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/) And the results of that can be easily seen, in the kind of (plummeting, at every level) society we nowadays have.

And, not wanting to wander any more off-topic, I will just add that, as a self-taught person, who also went to public school, I speak from experience.

quantumgravity
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Joined: 04/22/2013

Homeschooling can make your children perhaps better educated, but not "more intelligent", that's a difference.
Furthermore, you forget an important point:
It may be that children of public schools get less knowledge in shorter time compared to pupils at home, but they make some extremely important experiences, especially social ones.
The ability to persist in a system with many failures and to push oneself through some hard situations and to develop self confidence although receiving some unjust grades is very useful in our society.
I'm german and my educational system surely had many problems. But today, I'm glad to have made such experiences, especially the pressure to perform _to some level_, since I'm afraid this is normal in the environment you will join after school.
Homeschooling means to put the children under a cheese cover (don't know if there's a better expression in english; I mean a round half sphere of glass), and this has many problems, too.

Fernando_Negro
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"Homeschooling" means "learning at home". Not being locked inside a house for 24 hours a day. And, every sane parent wants their children to socialize with other children (also homeschooled or not) and do whatever they want, on their free time.

There are thousands of persons who were successfully educated this way (and that's even how many people were educated before the actual system was enforced, by the way - and every honest comparison of results usually puts people - even 200 years ago, in the US, for example - who were homeschooled in a better position as those who are educated, nowadays, through the Prussian model - http://www.danielestulin.com/2011/04/21/leccion-de-geografia-para-estadounidenses/#comment-8810). And this same persons don't have social problems of any kind. (From what I know, even, the most problematic children are the ones who are forced to go into public schools...)

Not being a part of (or going along with) the "herd" is, most of the times, actually a good thing. And homeschooling is also a great way to develop independent thought and independence of action (that comes out of having to rely more on yourself) - which can lead to great results. (Take a look at Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds, for example. Did they develop their own ideas as part of a school project? Or did they do it because they started to evolve on their own and following their own path?)

I know that intelligence is mainly one thing a person is born with. But, the same way a better piece of software can make the same piece of hardware function better, also the environment and the stimulation a child is subjected to, when it's growing up, is very important in how that same intelligence is developed, is better worked upon and manifests itself.

Anyway, in your country, this a discussion people are not even allowed to have. Since that, German children belong to the State and not to their own families. And people who want to educate their own children are forced to leave the country. (http://www.prisonplanet.com/homeschoolers-flee-persecution-in-germany-and-sweden.html)

Chris

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Forcing students to where ID badges is disturbing. What people should also be disturbed about is how they are being used. I graduated from a high school in the US in 2003. Even then they had cameras in the schools (recently implemented, and these schools weren't dangerous either, it was nearly all uppder middle class pupils). They had also started requiring students to wear student IDs exposing students names to anybody they might come into contact with. So this was more than a matter of identifying students for the purposes of maintaining a safe learning environment or ensuring participation in the educational system (truancy, etc). It starts off small and with no clear reason. Later they started tracking what students ate who purchased lunch in the cafeteria. This is an invasion of students privacy. I'm sure this was done in 'the name of healthy eating' or for 'safety' reason or to 'avoid legal liability due to allergies, etc'. However it's not acceptable! Beyond the costs of running such a system there are many many issues.

It is unreasonable to invade the privacy of every student buying lunch just to offset liability of students with health issues. Students who have health issues may benefit from being informed about the risks although students who do not have health issues should not be forced (and even those who do should not be forced) to use any such system.

Unfortunately there are not enough people objecting to these things. I think there was some objection by the students to drug testing of athletes where I went to school. Unfortunately the school won a supreme court case and now any student can be drug tested who is involved in an after school activity. This does not stop students from being drug tested who appear to be impaired on school grounds though. The problem with this thinking that 'well, just don't do drugs, or don't do drugs and participate in after school activities' is that participation is not all that voluntary. Students need to participate in order to get into college. Without college many students would be forced into near-poverty conditions. Making minimum wage or near minimum wage in upper middle class America is not enough to survive on. You become dependent on family and friends to support you. You also go without medical treatment because you can't get health insurance working most part time jobs or near minimum wage jobs. And minimum wage in America is not enough to to escape poverty either. Poverty by any sane definition anyway.

Fernando_Negro
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"I'm sure this was done in 'the name of healthy eating' or for 'safety' reason or to 'avoid legal liability due to allergies, etc'".

Don't be fooled by the propaganda... This "Big Brother exists to protect you and take care of you" is always the official explanation. But, it's not the true reason why they do that (and other things). This is to "condition" the new generations to the idea of being constantly surveilled and to know that, if they ever get "out of line", there will be someone noticing it - and there will be consequences to that.

This is just one of the first stages of a very elaborated project, which aims to take away everyone's freedoms and rights. (Like you say, it starts off with small things, and then evolves to an ever more controlling environment and society.) First, you create a totalitarian government, of which no one can escape from. And next, you eliminate democracy itself, and substitute it for a government where people are not even allowed to have a say. (This last step being done with the excuse of an emergency, war, or whatever reason they come up with, with any resistance to this becoming impossible - simply, because any kind of "guerrilla" will become impossible in a totally controlled society.)

If you all want to know part of the final goal of the people behind all this, read a novel that Richard Stallman repeatedly mentions, called "Nineteen Eighty-Four". (And, for those of you who already have: No, that novel was not written out of a great foresight capability of its author and as a warning to people of what society could evolve to. It's a novel written by someone who worked for the same interests behind all this, and, like many other novels and films that exist nowadays, a description of what's planned for the future (now, ever more, the present). And the reason why this people even put their plans on "fictional" books and films is, not only to "condition" people to accept such a society model, but also because they think (or know) people will be incapable of stopping it from becoming a reality.)

(This is a loooong story, that I've been researching about, for 10 years now. And that it would take me days to explain. But, for the sake of this small exchange of messages, and because this is not the place to discuss it, I will just leave here this tips that I have.)

[11:08 - Edited, one hour later, to add a link to a book, below, that serves as a very good introduction to the story I'm talking about.]

http://www.amazon.com/The-True-Story-Bilderberg-Group/dp/0979988624

GustavoCM

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It's good to see well-informed people in a Free Software community, let alone being Portuguese-speaking as I am :-)

I do not study the subject itself, although the things you said are not new to me. I wonder if you know of some specific historical study on the relation between globalism(s) and the formation of the modern IT market, mainly under the perspective of cultural revolution (e.g., the word "hacker", which was used to describe someone creatively good at something in many areas, became a word to qualify a digital criminal (and so "criminalizing" creativity, putting people to reject acting by themselves), mainly by the influence of big media, which are in the hands of globalists; or the use of marketing on technology to put people in a subjective magical world etc.).

Also, seeing your recommended readings at http://blackfernando.blogspot.com/p/leitura-recomendada.html , I believe you would find (if haven't found yet) most interesting the reading of the debate "The USA and the New World Order" -- http://debateolavodugin.blogspot.com/ -- between the Brazilian philosopher Olavo de Carvalho and Putin's geopolitical strategist Alexandr Dugin (mentor of the Evrasianism). The debate was held officially in English, being Dugin's writings translated to Portuguese (the mother tongue of Carvalho, which I think you will appreciate because he is a great writer and knows very much about the subject: "What are the historical, political, ideological and economic factors and actors that now define the dynamics and configuration of power in the world, and what is the U.S. position in what is known as New World Order?"). The English version was compiled here (PDF); the Portuguese one was published as a book, which I don't know if is available in Portugal: http://www.videeditorial.com.br/VIDE-Editorial/Os-EUA-e-a-Nova-Ordem-Mundial/flypage.tpl.html , but I bet you could find a PDF version in Portuguese on the Internet too.

I mention this debate because Carvalho's theory that "the historic forces that today contend for power in the world array themselves into three projects of global dominance, [...] the 'Russian-Chinese,' the 'Western' (sometimes mistakenly called 'Anglo-American') and the 'Islamic' projects" is much more complete than Daniel Estulin's and Alex Jones' views. For example, I could cite http://www.aim.org/aim-column/russian-dupes-behind-bilderberger-protests/ as a view that makes much sense under that teory -- which doesn't contradicts (instead, reinforces) the usefulness of Estulin's and Jones' work in unveiling the "ocidental" scheme, which I bet all this "restrictive and surveillance technology" stuff belongs to.

Fernando_Negro
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(This is one of the reasons why I think a different kind of forum - like the one Ubuntu has, with places where people can discuss topics not specifically about software, but related to it, and whatever kind of topics people want to discuss - would be a very good idea for the Trisquel community. Particularly, after realizing how particularly knowledgeable and well-informed some people in here are, and how, us all being idealistic persons, we all have much more in common than the simple fact that we use the same GNU/Linux distro. But, because I will be particularly occupied in the next few months, finishing publishing the results of my findings, I'll only be able to see if that's something I can volunteer for - or can even help with, that is - somewhere in the near future... Although, I'm also not sure how much longer I'll use the Internet itself - since, the one that we know, at least, will not last for long... But, anyway, not wanting, again, to use this space for discussions whose place may not be very proper, and trying to be as short as possible in my answer - because, as I said, this is a very long story, and also one that has ramifications everywhere on society - I will only say the following...)

Concerning this "New World Order" project and its relation to the IT world and the hacker community, this is what I know:

- Facebook is also a CIA front (whose obvious purpose is to gather intelligence about everyone on the Planet). And is one that has even "former" nazis behind it. And Zuckerberg has even admittedly attended one of the Bilderberg meetings. (http://blackfernando.blogspot.pt/2012/08/ja-aderiram-ao-facebook.html)
- Confirming Google's connections to this totalitarian project, there's footage of its CEO, Eric Schmidt, attending one of this "secretive" Bilderberg meetings and being confronted by activists. (http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=230291#p230291)
- The creation of the Internet, itself (in how it relates to all this) is something that, still today, I have not yet been able to comprehend... Because, it's clearly revealing itself to be one of the greatest dangers to this same project, in how it makes it (so much more) possible for people to expose it and have access to the information that exposes it. (http://www.danielestulin.com/2011/06/21/el-objetivo-de-wikileaks-es-cerrar-internet-daniel-estulin-autor-de-desmontando-wikileaks/#comment-10983) But, anyway, for that same reason it's, obviously, not going to last for long. And the "i911" event, that we all have already been warned about (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57565763-83/cyber-9-11-may-be-on-horizon-homeland-security-chief-warns/) will soon provide the excuse for our governments to implement "iPatriot Act"-like laws that will end the Internet as we know it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yp8o2TTee0)
- Concerning the Internet "hackers" phenomenon, I know that Assange (that was part of the Chaos Computer Club) is a CIA puppet - in the literal sense. He's someone who was (literally) brainwashed as a kid, to later be used by this agency. And the WikiLeaks project is also a CIA front - that aims to, among other things, create the idea of "insecurity" on the Internet, to give governments the excuse to start controlling it. Estulin has written a book denouncing it. (http://www.trineday.com/paypal_store/product_pages/9781937584115-Deconstructing_Wikileaks/) The reason why Assange is being persecuted now, is because he's only indirectly controlled (long story, again) and has had access to information he wasn't supposed to, which the CIA, and the likes, are now afraid that he will reveal. (Read Estulin.)
- One other thing that I know about (related to computers and the Internet) and that should be of great interest to people in here, is the P*OMIS (R instead of the *) software story. (About which the former KGB, Daniel Estulin, has also written a book - although, partly fictionalized, in the form of a novel, so that he wouldn't get killed for trying to exposing something of this magnitude. - http://www.trineday.com/paypal_store/product_pages/9781937584238_Octopus_Deception/) This software is a, de facto and immensely powerful, "Big Brother" that already exists and that, among other things, monitors everyone's Internet usage. (And about which, let me note, *you shouldn't research too much on the Internet*, at least using Windows, if you don't want your hard drive to be "cleaned" of all its contents - http://www.elmundo.es/encuentros/invitados/2010/05/4217/index.html - And, like it says in the previous link, beware that more than 100 journalists have already died investigating it.) This is a software that I have been reading about, through the last years, in the alternative media (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/052401_promis.html) and of which there is good series of articles published in English. (http://www.danielestulin.com/2011/06/06/promis-ningun-secreto-esta-a-salvo-parte-i-en-ingles/ + http://www.danielestulin.com/2011/06/07/promis-ningun-secreto-esta-a-salvo-parte-ii-en-ingles/ + http://www.danielestulin.com/2011/06/08/promis-ningun-secreto-esta-a-salvo-parte-iii-en-ingles/ + http://www.danielestulin.com/2011/06/10/promis-ningun-secreto-esta-a-salvo-parte-iv-en-ingles/)
- Concerning the "magical world" that you talk about, that's something that is also part of the "mind control" phenomenon. With this "alternate reality" MMOG games, and such, being something that is constructed and promoted by the establishment, in order to further alienate people from reality, so that they don't offer any resistance to their ongoing enslavement. (Listen to Estulin.)

Concerning Olavo de Carvalho, and the rest...

- I've repeatedly heard of Carvalho, through the years. And know he's someone who knows a bit about this subjects (and that has been also denouncing what he knows about this project). But, not being close to him politically, and having been able to find much better sources about this subjects, through the course of my research, I've barely paid any attention to him. But, I can now take a look at what he has to say.
- Concerning Brazil, itself, beware that your country (from what I know) is pretty much under the control of this globalists. I've repeatedly read, from good sources, that (speaking metaphorically) the "B", in the "BRICS" acronym, should actually stand for "Britain", because of how much under the control of the Royal Bank of Scotland (own by the Queen) your country is. (http://www.danielestulin.com/2010/07/06/reportaje-sobre-banco-santander-parte-i/ + http://www.danielestulin.com/2010/07/07/reportaje-sobre-banco-santander-parte-ii/)
- Concerning this New World Order project, "Anglo-American Empire" is, actually, a very good way of describing it. Because, although it is a Western project, leading this same project is the British royal family (just one tip, concerning the Present: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw#t=08m26s - and another one, concerning the historical background of all this: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=43444.0) who has, through its history, repeatedly controlled the US, through puppet Presidents, and whose power on the other side of the Atlantic has now pretty much been restored, in a stable manner, and has been essential in order to pursue the military aggressions necessary to expand this "New World Order" to other (non-controlled) parts of the Globe.
- Concerning the implementation of a Police State, as I said earlier, the creation of the "surveillance society", that we nowadays increasingly have, is an essential step for the transition to the world-wide dictatorship, that is planned (http://www.prisonplanet.com/financial-times-editorial-admits-agenda-for-dictatorial-world-government.html) controlled by this sociopaths. (Read books like the mentioned "Nineteen Eighty-Four", written by a former MI6 agent, the "Brave New World" novel, that was written by a member of the Huxley family, and watch movies like "Equilibrium", "The Island", and the likes. The future that is planned for us is going to be a mixture of all that. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7_YFKyhQMI)
- And, concerning the books that I recommend, Gustavo, the one about the Bilderberg Club, that I have on the list, is the updated version of the one that I know was censored there, in Brazil (and also here in Portugal) and is also the Portuguese version of the one that I recommended to people, in here, as a very good introduction to this topic. (If you're willing to pay the shipping cost, you can order it from the Portuguese publisher's web page (http://www.europa-america.pt/) since, they also ship to Brazil.)

(To all the other forum users, I'm very sorry for the long text, in a not very proper place... But, as I said, this is a looong story, with huge ramifications, that is very hard to summarize. And, to GustavoCM, in particular, you're welcome to make questions in my blog, instead, if you have any doubts or want to know some more about this subjects - even if those questions are made in the comments to unrelated posts - that, if they're intelligent and I have the time to, I can try to answer them.)

Fernando_Negro
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And, also, still concerning the "hackers" (I forgot to say) this new phenomenon of Internet attacks supposedly made by groups like "Anonymous", "LulzSec", and the likes, is also something behind which is the (Anglo-American) establishment itself. (http://www.danielestulin.com/2012/02/01/el-papel-de-anonymous/) And that, like WikiLeaks, serves the purpose of creating the idea of "insecurity" on the Internet (I strongly doubt they're even real attacks, not made with the help of the entities affected) to provide an excuse for our governments to start controlling that same Internet.

One of the guys involved in one of the groups as even hinted about his connections to the powers-that-be (http://www.prisonplanet.com/lulzsecs-fbi-informant-leader-hinted-at-cia-connection.html) in one of those kind of "jokes", some of this people make, when they say something that they know most people won't get.

GustavoCM

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Thank you very much for your time :-)

In fact, there is a "troll hole" in Trisquel forums: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/troll-hole , which could be used for such discussions.

jamathis

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The idea of Chrome OS machines being used in schools is horrifying. This will basically teach kids to trust everything they do to a company such as Google. Sadly we are already seeing a lot of this with the popularity of iThings. Then there's the fact that Google will have access to the personal data of children. Nothing about Chrome OS respects freedom or privacy. It is certainly something that should be avoided at all costs.