Confused - trying to pick a 100% libre distro
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My current Debian Squeeze installation is broken (or was last I checked) and is not 100% libre (which is the more important issue), so I'm trying to decide on a distro that is 100% free. I've decided to limit my choice to Trisquel and gNewSense. My impression is that dwyn is _very_ nice and up-to-date with the wealth of packages one would expect from an Ubuntu derivative. gNewSense seems like it is much less up-to-date and a bit more rickety on the netbook I use, and it also seems to have a very small collection of packages. This may all change after Lucid is released, but if gNewSense follows its current model, it will quickly become out-of-date again. I'm fully comfortable with using a distro whose main community seems to not speak English as a first language; it should be an interesting/educational experience if anything. Trisquel seems like it is the best of the best in the free world and seems to have a very polished system in place... in short, I want to use it. Desperately.
Then there's the small issue of the DMCA. Or maybe its a not an issue. That's my question.
Is there any material on the live CD that could potentially be in violation of the DMCA? I'd really like to be able to recommend the vanilla Trisquel CD to anyone. Is there anything like libdvdcss on the disk?
Yes! There is lbdvdcss included. This package is free so I don't see any
problem to have it. It's included in BLAG too.
name at domain a écrit :
> My current Debian Squeeze installation is broken (or was last I
> checked) and is not 100% libre (which is the more important issue), so
> I'm trying to decide on a distro that is 100% free. I've decided to
> limit my choice to Trisquel and gNewSense. My impression is that dwyn
> is _very_ nice and up-to-date with the wealth of packages one would
> expect from an Ubuntu derivative. gNewSense seems like it is much
> less up-to-date and a bit more rickety on the netbook I use, and it
> also seems to have a very small collection of packages. This may all
> change after Lucid is released, but if gNewSense follows its current
> model, it will quickly become out-of-date again. I'm fully
> comfortable with using a distro whose main community seems to not
> speak English as a first language; it should be an
> interesting/educational experience if anything. Trisquel seems like
> it is the best of the best in the free world and seems to have a very
> polished system in place... in short, I want to use it. Desperately.
>
> Then there's the small issue of the DMCA. Or maybe its a not an
> issue. That's my question.
>
> Is there any material on the live CD that could potentially be in
> violation of the DMCA? I'd really like to be able to recommend the
> vanilla Trisquel CD to anyone. Is there anything like libdvdcss on
> the disk?
> _______________________________________________
> Trisquel-users mailing list
> name at domain
> http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-users
>
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Trisquel-users mailing list
name at domain
http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-users
The problem is that (as far as I can tell) the use of libdvdcss is illegal in the United States. I do not plan to break the law.
OK! I'm not American, so I've not that kind of problem. But if I was, a
law that forbid me to read my own DVD on myown computer, I'd break it
without any problem.
Le samedi 31 octobre 2009 à 20:27 +0100, name at domain a écrit :
> The problem is that (as far as I can tell) the use of libdvdcss is illegal in
> the United States. I do not plan to break the law.
> _______________________________________________
> Trisquel-users mailing list
> name at domain
> http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-users
Sorry if I sounded aggressive there... that wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of anything; as far as I can tell, this distro's community is largely outside of the United States and I know how different these types of laws are around the world.
> The problem is that (as far as I can tell) the use of libdvdcss is
> illegal in the United States. I do not plan to break the law.
If it is illegal to use in your country, you can choose not to use it,
and you can uninstall it with the package manager or with this command:
sudo apt-get remove --purge libdvdcss2
On the other hand, it is legal that you use it to view a DVD you paid
for. What the DMCA forbids is to circumvent a copyright protection
method, this is, to copy it in order to be distributed. A good
explanation is here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats#Video
Also, I might add that libdvdcss was never tested in a court, and in my
opinion it would be hard to demonstrate that it "circumvents a
protection method", as that should only apply to reasonable *working*
methods, and the CSS cypher is trivial and lame.
In any case, IANAL :)
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Thanks for the info... I looked at it, it seems I can use Trisquel without a problem! :) :) :) :) :) (and then some)
I saw something on some random forum I found with Google about it being illegal to distribute software that can be used to bypass security stuff... can't be absolutely sure that's what it said, can't be sure if that person was correct. I'll try to look into it and report my findings when I figure something out.
Again, thanks!
On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 23:29 +0100, name at domain wrote:
> Thanks for the info... I'll look into it. If it seems I can use Trisquel
> without a problem :) :) :) :) :) (and then some).
I really don't think it's sensible to submit to unjust laws. I live in
NZ and am pretty sure we've imported the same American law.
The best way to get a law changed is often civil disobedience, refusing
to submit to it.
> _______________________________________________
> Trisquel-users mailing list
> name at domain
> http://listas.trisquel.info/mailman/listinfo/trisquel-users
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It seems clear that it is legal for me to *use* libdvdcss... however, if it is illegal to distribute copies, how would I ever "legally" obtain one? And then, would it be "legal" for me to give copies of the Trisquel disk with libdvdcss to friends (if I can't, there's no good way to spread free software...*)? I've look at the part of the DMCA that the Ubuntu page linked to. One section, (a)(2)(B) (I think) could maybe be read as saying that distribution of libdvdcss on a disk is legal because it is part of a larger work.
How would anyone ever obtain a copy in order to achieve interoperability if they were to strictly follow the DMCA? It seems it would be impossible unless this clause allows for it. If there isn't a clause, it is either an oversight or someone with a vicious sense of humor.
* Assuming I'm good with it, think how the conversation would go:
me: "This disk has 100% free software on it, but if I give it to you it will be a violation of the DMCA (you know, the law they talk about at the beginning of movies saying you could have to pay a half million dollars in fines and spend five years in jail for copying the video)."
them: "Oh. Never mind."
No need for anyone to post on here anymore. I've figured it out. I got the impression that gNewSense had a _very_ small collection of packages, but I was wrong. Thanks all for posting!
Still, if this is the case, you can just tell people where to download Trisquel, can't you? Distributing is not allowed, but downloading it yourself is.
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 16:43 +0100, name at domain wrote:
> Still, if this is the case, you can just tell people where to download
> Trisquel, can't you? Distributing is not allowed, but downloading it yourself
> is.
> __________________________________
What? Why would you not be allowed to distribute trisquel? It is Free
software, and you can bet that the FSF would not promote it if you
couldn't distribute it, that is a basic freedom.
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Just so you guys know trisquel and gnewsense do not actually contain this software. What they have is a script that you can run that will download the dvd decryption software. But it's not installed on default and you have to run the script by choice. Therefore you have no problem. The choice to run the script is yours.
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