I Want To Install The ATI Drivers
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I love using 100% free, but honestly not everything works good like this I'm sorry to say and like someone else said I don't want to be a traitor to the cause of 100% Free GNU/Linux like Trisquel which is really great, but I want my computer to work like it should in the 21st century.
I tried installing the ATI drivers and when I did I thought that it would also change the xorg.conf like it does by default in Ubuntu, but to my surprise the xorg.conf hadn't been changed and when I rebooted the mouse wouldn't work.
I played for hours to no end in sight, without being able to figure out how to get the mouse to work, which seemed odd to me.
Is there anything difficult about installing the ATI drivers and some special file editing of xorg.conf to get things to work proper?
THANKS
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 07:20:01 +0200 (CEST), name at domain wrote:
> I love using 100% free, but honestly not everything works good like this
> I'm
> sorry to say and like someone else said I don't want to be a traitor to
> the
> cause of 100% Free GNU/Linux like Trisquel which is really great, but I
> want
> my computer to work like it should in the 21st century.
>
> I tried installing the ATI drivers and when I did I thought that it
would
> also change the xorg.conf like it does by default in Ubuntu, but to my
> surprise the xorg.conf hadn't been changed and when I rebooted the mouse
> wouldn't work.
About your graphics card and 3D acceleration:
http://listas.trisquel.info/pipermail/trisquel-users/2010-March/000923.html
I'm guessing the proprietary ATI driver just gets confused since it relies
on the non-free blobs in the linux kernel. Since trisquel uses the
linux-libre kernel (deblobbed) there's no _functional_ advantage in using
the proprietary driver.
About the mouse not working; If you haven't specified anything in
xorg.conf
I'm not sure how to fix that problem, but if you have you might get it
working again by removing the lines related to pointing device. By
removing
the lines you're letting Xorg auto-detect devices.
-Øyvind J.
> Is there anything difficult about installing the ATI drivers and some
> special file editing of xorg.conf to get things to work proper?
We don't support nor recommend that driver, so please don't ask here.
I am a translator!
The ATI proprietary driver seems to be a problem in itself and the problems it could cause have probably nothing to do with Trisquel. I installed it in Ubuntu 9.10 to see if there was significant difference in performance with the free one and I was unable to reboot into Ubuntu (not even in recovery mode). In the end I had to boot into Trisquel and edit Ubuntu's xorg.conf in order to comment the lines of the ATI driver. It is certainly not to be recommended in any case.
The drivers aren't much of a problem at all, I've used them just fine in other distros.
You have to run aticonfig --initial in Ubuntu and other distros to ensure the xorg.conf has been changed.
I'd love to run 100% free but it's not a reality with some hardware.
2010/4/29 <name at domain>
> The drivers aren't much of a problem at all, I've used them just fine in
> other distros.
>
> You have to run aticonfig --initial in Ubuntu and other distros to ensure
> the xorg.conf has been changed.
>
> I'd love to run 100% free but it's not a reality with some hardware.
>
We understand your point and accept that you think that way but please do
not make our work harder by promoting this way of thinking in this list. To
advocate for 100% is a very difficult task because it requires, as you have
seen, keeping yourself from some functionality that you would like to have.
Anyway, we make such effort in a struggle for the long range dream we are
going for, which is that all software be libre. It is about the same effort
for me to write this email as it would be for me to buy another video card
if i hard your problem but I think it would well worth it because I would
not only contribute with advocacy with other members of the libre software
movement but I could also send a letter to the manufacturer of the hardware
that has refused to make the specs available for the writting of a libre
driver telling them of the reason of my decision to replace their video card
with their competitor's. This, in turn would make a critical mass of
consumers and providers to help in minimizing the use of non-libre software.
--
Saludos/Greetings
Quiliro Ordóñez
593(2)340 1517 / 593(9)821 8696
http://quiliro.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/cronica-de-un-contrato-con-el-estado/
Estas son opiniones personales y no representan la posición de ninguna
organización.
It's nice to dream right now but the facts are you can only go out and buy what you can afford to buy.
My laptop only cost me $200 brand new, now in order for me to go out and get the same quality in a laptop that will work with all free software for the work and pleasure I'd like it for is going to cost me around $600-$800 and I do not have that kind of money to spend.
When it comes to money we unfortunately don't have many choices many of us. I want to use a computer right now and unfortunately 100% Libre isn't going to work, but am I going to have to go out and pay for the ATI drivers? No, they are free to use.
I don't know, but from what I understand about FSF, it's also about Freedom as in Speech not as in free beer and if that's true, well the ATI drivers meet that needs and mine too and they work and I'm happy and no one is dying and that's Freedom too.
2010/4/29 <name at domain>
> It's nice to dream right now but the facts are you can only go out and buy
> what you can afford to buy.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_a_Dream
> My laptop only cost me $200 brand new, now in order for me to go out and
> get the same quality in a laptop that will work with all free software for
> the work and pleasure I'd like it for is going to cost me around $600-$800
> and I do not have that kind of money to spend.
>
>
Liberty is a question of freedom, not price. This link might be of interest
to you.
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express
Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME,
943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
When it comes to money we unfortunately don't have many choices many of us.
> I want to use a computer right now and unfortunately 100% Libre isn't going
> to work, but am I going to have to go out and pay for the ATI drivers? No,
> they are free to use.
>
> In english there is a problem with the term free. It is confused with
something that you didn't pay anything for. Nevertheless, there is no free
lunch. Everything is payed for in the long run. Maybe you will find this in
the future. You or someone else will pay the price you didn't want to pay.
In this case we are doing it for you. Won't you help us by chipping in?
> I don't know, but from what I understand about FSF, it's also about Freedom
> as in Speech not as in free beer and if that's true, well the ATI drivers
> meet that needs and mine too and they work and I'm happy and no one is dying
> and that's Freedom too.
>
I don't see anyone prohibiting you from speaking here. It is just that you
are making our advocacy harder than it already is by promoting non libre
software.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
Will you join us? It is a fight only for the brave I will warn you.
--
Saludos/Greetings
Quiliro Ordóñez
593(2)340 1517 / 593(9)821 8696
http://quiliro.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/cronica-de-un-contrato-con-el-estado/
Estas son opiniones personales y no representan la posición de ninguna
organización.
2010/4/29 <name at domain>
> It's nice to dream right now but the facts are you can only go out and buy
> what you can afford to buy.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_a_Dream
> My laptop only cost me $200 brand new, now in order for me to go out and
> get the same quality in a laptop that will work with all free software for
> the work and pleasure I'd like it for is going to cost me around $600-$800
> and I do not have that kind of money to spend.
>
>
Liberty is a question of freedom, not price. This link might be of interest
to you.
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express
Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME,
943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
When it comes to money we unfortunately don't have many choices many of us.
> I want to use a computer right now and unfortunately 100% Libre isn't going
> to work, but am I going to have to go out and pay for the ATI drivers? No,
> they are free to use.
>
> In english there is a problem with the term free. It is confused with
something that you didn't pay anything for. Nevertheless, there is no free
lunch. Everything is payed for in the long run. Maybe you will find this in
the future. You or someone else will pay the price you didn't want to pay.
In this case we are doing it for you. Won't you help us by chipping in?
> I don't know, but from what I understand about FSF, it's also about Freedom
> as in Speech not as in free beer and if that's true, well the ATI drivers
> meet that needs and mine too and they work and I'm happy and no one is dying
> and that's Freedom too.
>
I don't see anyone prohibiting you from speaking here. It is just that you
are making our advocacy harder than it already is by promoting non libre
software.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
Will you join us? It is a fight only for the brave I will warn you.
--
Saludos/Greetings
Quiliro Ordóñez
593(2)340 1517 / 593(9)821 8696
http://quiliro.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/cronica-de-un-contrato-con-el-estado/
Estas son opiniones personales y no representan la posición de ninguna
organización.
2010/4/29 <name at domain>
> It's nice to dream right now but the facts are you can only go out and buy
> what you can afford to buy.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_a_Dream
> My laptop only cost me $200 brand new, now in order for me to go out and
> get the same quality in a laptop that will work with all free software for
> the work and pleasure I'd like it for is going to cost me around $600-$800
> and I do not have that kind of money to spend.
>
>
Liberty is a question of freedom, not price. This link might be of interest
to you.
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GME Express
Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
00:02.1 Display controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS/GME,
943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
When it comes to money we unfortunately don't have many choices many of us.
> I want to use a computer right now and unfortunately 100% Libre isn't going
> to work, but am I going to have to go out and pay for the ATI drivers? No,
> they are free to use.
>
> In english there is a problem with the term free. It is confused with
something that you didn't pay anything for. Nevertheless, there is no free
lunch. Everything is payed for in the long run. Maybe you will find this in
the future. You or someone else will pay the price you didn't want to pay.
In this case we are doing it for you. Won't you help us by chipping in?
> I don't know, but from what I understand about FSF, it's also about Freedom
> as in Speech not as in free beer and if that's true, well the ATI drivers
> meet that needs and mine too and they work and I'm happy and no one is dying
> and that's Freedom too.
>
I don't see anyone prohibiting you from speaking here. It is just that you
are making our advocacy harder than it already is by promoting non libre
software.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
Will you join us? It is a fight only for the brave I will warn you.
--
Saludos/Greetings
Quiliro Ordóñez
593(2)340 1517 / 593(9)821 8696
http://quiliro.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/cronica-de-un-contrato-con-el-estado/
Estas son opiniones personales y no representan la posición de ninguna
organización.
I'm not trying to promote non-free at all.
The reality is I have a computer and I need to use it now.
Sure 100% Free would be great, but if I have to use Adobe Flash and the ATI drivers to get Trisquel to work, then I think this is more freedom then using Ubuntu. ;)
2010/4/29 <name at domain>
> I'm not trying to promote non-free at all.
>
> You are by making public your idea that non-free software use for practical
(not investigative) reasons is ethical.
> The reality is I have a computer and I need to use it now.
>
> Sure 100% Free would be great, but if I have to use Adobe Flash and the ATI
> drivers to get Trisquel to work, then I think this is more freedom then
> using Ubuntu. ;)
>
I would think that would say some people who were enslaved as were blacks in
the 1800's. Would they say that now?
--
Saludos/Greetings
Quiliro Ordóñez
593(2)340 1517 / 593(9)821 8696
http://quiliro.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/cronica-de-un-contrato-con-el-estado/
Estas son opiniones personales y no representan la posición de ninguna
organización.
> I would think that would say some people who were enslaved as were
> blacks in the 1800's. Would they say that now?
There are still slaves nowadays. Tell a deeply underpaid hand worker
in a underdeveloped country you are shutting down his factory for
humanitarian reasons, and he will beg you not to. Tell a high profile
Wall Street workaholic to chill out and he will send you to hell.
Freedom is not always an easy thing to get. You've got to love it.
On Fri, 2010-04-30 at 01:51 +0200, Rubén Rodríguez Pérez wrote:
> > I would think that would say some people who were enslaved as were
> > blacks in the 1800's. Would they say that now?
>
> There are still slaves nowadays.
This is true.
> Tell a deeply underpaid hand worker
> in a underdeveloped country you are shutting down his factory for
> humanitarian reasons, and he will beg you not to.
Please don't go comparing slavery to being stuck in a shitty job.
Modern slavery still exists in the same forms that it has in the past,
luckily it has now been pushed to the fringes and is no longer
acceptable.
A talk was given on modern slavery at TED, which is available here. I
recommend watching it.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/kevin_bales_how_to_combat_modern_slavery.html
> Tell a high profile
> Wall Street workaholic to chill out and he will send you to hell.
>
> Freedom is not always an easy thing to get. You've got to love it.
> Please don't go comparing slavery to being stuck in a shitty job.
That was not my point, but to explain how you can be a slave -to others
or even to yourself- and be happy with it. Sometimes freedom is not
appealing, you need to understand its meanings and look forward for it.
> Sure 100% Free would be great, but if I have to use Adobe Flash and
> the ATI drivers to get Trisquel to work,
Well, it _does_ work, just not the way you want.
>then I think this is more freedom then using Ubuntu. ;)
Sure it is. Even if we would never recommend you to get non-free
software, you can use whatever you like and be still welcome to our
community, as long as you don't ask for help we can't give and don't
recommend others to use software that could threat their freedoms.
You picked a fully free distro. You're free to pick a different distro.
> I have to use Adobe Flash and the ATI drivers to get Trisquel to work
Well, you don't. Trisquel works extremely well without flash or proprietary video drivers. If you're used to Mac OS X or Windows, then you expect one thing from computers. You'd think that that just IS what a computer IS. And frankly, that's NOT what a computer is, that's just what a handful of corporations think a computer should be.
I use Trisquel because I believe in freedom, and I use GNU/Linux because I want to be able to define what my computer is and does, and I don't want somebody else telling me what I should expect from computers and the Internet.
Since switching to Trisquel full-time (with a gnewsense box on the side), I've found numerous ways of continuing to use the Internet and my computer as I always had. I will admit that many of my computer habits have changed, but it is for the best.
For example, why do you *need* to use Adobe Flash? If swfdec and gnash aren't working for watching YouTube videos, you've got options. For the flash videos I would really like to watch, I use the service TinyOGG: http://tinyogg.com/ and it's wonderful. It converts YouTube (and other!) videos into theora/vorbis oggs for download. For the most part, though, I've stopped using YouTube. The Internet existed before flash video, and it will continue to exist after its (long overdue) demise.
In general, though, I've stopped using Flash as much as possible. If somebody recommends a website, and I go to it to find that the entire page is flash, I tell them that I'm having great difficulty viewing the website, and then I don't go to the website.
That's right, I just don't go to the website. Sometimes I `wget` websites to read in emacs w3m in a terminal. Is there a problem with that? No. It takes some getting used to, but I get to the information I want much faster, and I'm not distracted constantly by funny cat videos. ;)
I find myself less distracted by all the total crap on the Internet. If I feel like I really need something, for research or entertainment or whatnot, there are ways to do so. Flash is tricky, though, so I try to avoid YouTube and other flash-based video distribution sites. There is also the matter of sites like Pandora, which use flash to stream music. People say they use it to discover music, but I'm finding that without such an option, I'm finding other ways to listen to music. Borrowing CDs from friends, digging through old albums my dad has, listening to the radio! There's also an ENORMOUS library of Creative Commons music out there for you to download, hear, and share. So go get 'em!
I also can't really play 3D games or anything, since I have an nVidia card but will not use their driver. Is that a problem? No, I get more work done. I can program. There are plenty of games out there that don't require 3D acceleration.
My computer habits may have changed, but I'm learning more about my computer, and I feel like I'm doing the right thing. Cheers!
> When it comes to money we unfortunately don't have many choices many
> of us. I want to use a computer right now and unfortunately 100%
> Libre isn't going to work
This is not true, all graphic cards work in Trisquel. At least all the
VESA compatible cards, which happen to be any card you can buy nowadays.
Some of them will not provide 3D or even 2D acceleration, but they work
for 99% of the tasks they are intended for. If you card does not offer
that kind of performace in Trisquel, then you should blame the hardware
company that sold you a piece of hardware you can't fully use in
freedom.
But since you can *use* the card anyway, it is not that bad a problem.
With other kinds of hardware, like wireles cards with no free driver,
you might get no functionality at all, but that is not a big problem
either since those cards are cheap and easy to replace.
Please don't blame us for not giving you an unethical non-free driver,
blame the vendor that is not providing you an ethical one.
> I don't know, but from what I understand about FSF, it's also about
> Freedom as in Speech not as in free beer and if that's true, well the
> ATI drivers meet that needs and mine too and they work and I'm happy
> and no one is dying and that's Freedom too.
They don't meet that needs: they are only gratis, not free as in
freedom. So, please don't ask here for help with those.
ATI and Nvidia drivers do not cost consumers any money to use them, so someone please explain why these are bad?
What is wrong with a coder developing their own software and keeping it proprietary if they want to? After all it is really their software not ours?
No one here using GNU/Linux or the other off branded Linux distros is a slave forced into anything.
You know you really need to look at it from the other side, your side too. Ok you are also locking me into something, saying if you want to use Trisquel use it this way or not at all? Right?
So if you think about it, for your sake of freedom you're limiting me, taking away freedom.
Let me ask you this, are you saying that all software should be open source and free?
Don't get me wrong, like I said I want freedom, but I also want things to work now, not next week, or next year.
I'm sorry I need a computer to work now, it's not a hobby for me, I need it for work and I need a computer to work at a certain level of performance for work, so that is another reason I need what I need and if the 100% Libre distro did it for me, then I'd be using it, but it doesn't.
if it ever does, then I'll be right there when it happens, but in the mean time I have to use what I have to.
I believe that the most significant difference between Trisquel and a
regular distro is that Trisquel is free as in freedom (source code is
available for all parts of the os under a open source licence).
If you want a proprietary thing in Trisquel you can find a way to install it
or even better try to find a free alternative (or simply use an another
distro). There are at least 400 linux distribution but only 9 are free as in
freedom (http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html). (In fact only 2-3 of
them are really competitive)
You can read this article about free as in freedom and free as in beer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_Libre#.22Free_as_in_beer.22_vs_.22Free_as_in_speech.22
Therefore, ATI and Nvidia drivers are bad because they are not open source.
There is no problem if a developer wants make a closed source program but
simply I am not going to use it. The user has the right to know how a
program works (think about an "evil" programmer who creates a program that
collects your personal data and send them to companies for advertising and
you have no idea for this)
Nevertheless, I still believe that is better to use one or two proprietary
drivers/codecs and stay with a free as in freedom distro than using some
dozens of proprietary software in a non-free distro.
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 10:30 AM, <name at domain> wrote:
> ATI and Nvidia drivers do not cost consumers any money to use them, so
> someone please explain why these are bad?
>
> What is wrong with a coder developing their own software and keeping it
> proprietary if they want to? After all it is really their software not ours?
>
> No one here using GNU/Linux or the other off branded Linux distros is a
> slave forced into anything.
>
> You know you really need to look at it from the other side, your side too.
> Ok you are also locking me into something, saying if you want to use
> Trisquel use it this way or not at all? Right?
>
> So if you think about it, for your sake of freedom you're limiting me,
> taking away freedom.
>
> Let me ask you this, are you saying that all software should be open source
> and free?
>
> Therefore, ATI and Nvidia drivers are bad because they are not open
> source.
Free software != Open Source:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html
I am a translator!
Nobody is forcing you to use Trisquel. Trisquel follows the design of a real GNU operating system.
I suggest you read a few articles on gnu.org to get a bit more familiar with the philosophy, which would give an answer to your questions.
----- Original message -----
> ATI and Nvidia drivers do not cost consumers any money to use them, so
> someone please explain why these are bad?
>
> What is wrong with a coder developing their own software and keeping it
> proprietary if they want to? After all it is really their software not ours?
>
> No one here using GNU/Linux or the other off branded Linux distros is a slave
> forced into anything.
>
> You know you really need to look at it from the other side, your side too. Ok
> you are also locking me into something, saying if you want to use Trisquel
> use it this way or not at all? Right?
>
> So if you think about it, for your sake of freedom you're limiting me, taking
> away freedom.
>
> Let me ask you this, are you saying that all software should be open source
> and free?
> What is wrong with a coder developing their own software and keeping
> it proprietary if they want to? After all it is really their software
> not ours?
It's wrong because if they do then it is *their* software, not yours.
You lack the freedom to use it the way you like, only the developer way
is allowed, and you cannot learn how it works, or modify and improve it.
Proprietary software should be abolished.
> Let me ask you this, are you saying that all software should be open
> source and free?
All software should be free as in freedom. That doesn't require it to
be free as in free beer.
Dasfox.
Think of it this way. Would you buy a car which does not let you use the
roads you want, open it for reparation or modification, sell it or sell it
modified? Would you think this for of commerce should be legal?
If the car would be given a way, would it make a difference? Should they
have the right to restrict everything you could do with your own car and
control your life that way?
Control will give the owner of the good enough money to pay for the good he
gave away. Either way, you are paying for it so might as well demand your
rights. If you do, others will have an easier way to demand their rights. A
clear example of this is workers' rights. Some gave up their lives for it so
now we don't even have to ask for our rights today.
--
Saludos/Greetings
Quiliro Ordóñez
593(2)340 1517 / 593(9)821 8696
http://quiliro.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/cronica-de-un-contrato-con-el-estado-1/
Estas son opiniones personales y no representan la posición de ninguna
organización.
2010/5/1 <name at domain>
> ATI and Nvidia drivers do not cost consumers any money to use them, so
> someone please explain why these are bad?
>
That's not bad, it's great. But Trisquel follows FSF's definition of free
software which is not about price but freedom. You are free to decide which
is more important.
>
> What is wrong with a coder developing their own software and keeping it
> proprietary if they want to? After all it is really their software not ours?
>
>
If you work to help society and make things easier for everyone, keeping
code secret makes no sense. You are free to release your code to the world
or keep it secret, it is your choice too.
> No one here using GNU/Linux or the other off branded Linux distros is a
> slave forced into anything.
>
> You know you really need to look at it from the other side, your side too.
> Ok you are also locking me into something, saying if you want to use
> Trisquel use it this way or not at all? Right?
>
>
Licenses tell you what you can and can not do with the software, and they
are restrictive by nature. But free software licenses are there to help
protect your freedom.
When you don't get help with proprietary software in this community, is
because people here want to protect your freedom not to lock you into
something.
> So if you think about it, for your sake of freedom you're limiting me,
> taking away freedom.
>
> Let me ask you this, are you saying that all software should be open source
> and free?
>
I think we should recognize to others the rights we ask for ourselves.
--
Luis Felipe López Acevedo
http://introsmedia.tuxfamily.org/
I agree with the points made by Luis above. It all boils down to whats more important to you. What do you value most; the relatively minor "benefits" of using proprietary software; or the principle of software freedom for all? Trisquel is for those people who have chosen the latter.
There's more on the philosophy of the free software movement at gnu.org: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html I only fully understood the whole free software idea after I'd read the articles on this web site.
Well there are two different points to software when it comes to Freedom.
1. Free Software
2. Open Source
Free software can be proprietary or open source. Perfect example as I've been talking about all along, the ATI drivers are proprietary, but they are free, they do not cost us money, therefor they do follow part of the ideas of the FSF with regards to what is stated below in "Free Software":
“Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free beer.”
For me the free software concept as in liberty not price is where I've been coming from, using these drivers isn't costing me money.
But now I can also see the other side that having only these ATI drivers is also not giving me much Liberty or many free choices to choose from, that I see, but at least we get them for free, that I think is still a good point and YES of course I wish they were open-source which I personally don't get why ATI won't do this.
What email can I contact ATI and Nvidia to ask about them making the drivers open source? Not just any old email address, but the address that the developers in charge of this will read?
THANKS
P.S. Actually is the ATI drivers now open-source?
> But now I can also see the other side that having only these ATI
> drivers is also not giving me much Liberty or many free choices to
> choose from
Freedom and liberty to choose are related but are not the same at all.
You can't choose not to pay your taxes, or to drive by the other side
of the road, or to kill another person. Those choices are forbidden.
Laws are rules we impose to ourselves in order to be free as a society.
Every freedom -like the right to live- includes a restriction -you
cannot kill others-.
On the other hand, we do not forbid you to install whatever you want in
Trisquel, we just don't distribute every program out there. So, you can
choose to install the ATI driver, but that won't get you any freedom.
> that I see, but at least we get them for free, that I
> think is still a good point.
The possibility of getting a program at no cost is a good point indeed,
but irrelevant if you can't use said program in freedom.
The definitive answer!
Rubén Rodríguez Pérez a écrit :
> On the other hand, we do not forbid you to install whatever you want in
> Trisquel, we just don't distribute every program out there. So, you can
> choose to install the ATI driver, but that won't get you any freedom.
> Free software can be proprietary or open source. Perfect example as
> I've been talking about all along, the ATI drivers are proprietary,
> but they are free, they do not cost us money, therefor they do follow
> part of the ideas of the FSF with regards to what is stated below in
> "Free Software":
>
> “Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the
> concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in
> “free beer.”
You are certainly misreading this! What the FSF calls Free Software is
"free as in freedom software", not "free as in free beer software".
What makes a program Free is not the lack of price but the lack of
restrictions to your freedom.
This is the problem with the English word "free" meaning both "libre"
and "gratis". The ATI drivers are gratis but not libre, so neither the
FSF or Trisquel will recommend or distribute them. We both don't care
if a program is or not gratis, it needs to be libre anyway.
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