I've trashed the last copy of non-free GNU/Linux installation

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nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

I trashed the last installation of non-free distribution (GNU/Linux Mint).

Before the re-installation, I made a copy of my /home directory (with highly-efficient zstd fast compression):

tar -cvf - ~ | zstd --fast > /path/file.tar.zst

After the re-installation and necessary configurations, I restored the backup:

zstd -cd /path/file.tar.zst | tar -xvf -

Only the MATE panel got broken (due to the conflicts between Debian's and Mint's MATE panel setting files). But I could easily restore the default settings of the panel (right click and select "Reset All Panels").

Cyberhawk

I am a translator!

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Joined: 07/27/2010

Congrats! Do you use a separate partition for your /home, as St IGNUcius intended?

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

What about installing Trisquel? You could even try Trisquel+Guix one day, and tell us what you think.

I find it amazing that you keep posting on the Trisquel forum, only to advise people not to use it.

None of the current Trisquel packages is "obsolete" for me. People who want more recent versions surely know how to get them: they most probably use a rolling-release distro, like you do, or install Guix on top of Trisquel and get what they need.

nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

It is true that I should have posted most topics on Debian forum. However, most people on Debian forum always recommend visitors to use their non-official, non-free images. They even recommended me to install all available non-free firmware to "maximize hardware compatibility". For me, Debian forum is no better than Ubuntu/Mint forum.

I was once Trisquel user long ago. However, I'd appreciate any changes in latest packages. Even a single function added to GNU Octave's packages helps me a lot. Consequently, I use a mixture of Debian's testing/unstable/experimental repositories.

And according to my community promotion experiences, most personal users don't benefit much from the "stability" of an LTS distribution. By contrast, they appreciate the freshness of semi/rolling distributions more. If you read Ubuntu's description about LTS, you'd find that the LTS branch is mainly tailored for enterprises/organizations.

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

I totally understand your point about why some people might rather use a (semi-)rolling GNU/Linux distro, including yourself. In a different usage case, I might also have different preferences.

Your experience about the Debian forum is perfect illustration of why it is still a good idea to advise people to use Trisquel instead, by default.

I do not doubt your own personal experience from your own community, and I do not doubt your good faith, and again, I do understand your points about Debian vs Trisquel, but I still feel it is inappropriate and unproductive to advise people against using Trisquel on the Trisquel forum.

At some point, I installed Linux Mint in dual boot mode with Trisquel, because many "Linux" user clubs around me are using it, and indeed it was quite some fun to get all these new versions of many things, but I was still very happy to boot Trisquel. A bit less fun is not an argument for me, so I kept using Trisquel for the strong software freedom experience it provides. I am missing nothing I could not get through Guix if necessary.

About LTS being for enterprises/organizations, I think it is misleading because most Trisquel users are very probably personal users who are quite fine with its stability and ease of use and maintenance. I think this is definitely a matter of personal preference and usage case, and I think it is fine to be fine with Trisquel as it is. I would think different, of course, if security updates were lagging. Anyway, I would currently not trust Ubuntu about anything, including any claim about LTS.

Andy
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Joined: 02/02/2020

Hey nadebula.1984 where did you get that GNU/Linux Mint distro from? As far as I am aware gnu org says…. “Mint does not have a policy against including nonfree software, it includes nonfree binary blobs in drivers packaged with the kernel, and it includes nonfree programs in its repositories. It even includes proprietary codecs.” Oh dear; not for me, codec backdoors, trackers etc etc. So please do not link Mint with gnu – thanks.
Joking apart:- I would never use Mint for that reason plus its inefficiency plus a shedload of OS-software issues as long as your arm…!
Besides; when I see thousands upon thousands heading in one direction, I seek my own path which lead me to Trisquel after trying out so many distros. Used ubuntu 16 LTS for about a year and was so glad to wipe it off my dual boot Win10. Wiped it all and installed wickedly fast Trisquel-mini juiced up with the usual software plus video editing.
As an example (on same laptop) of Trisquel vs Mint’s inefficiency with all those proprietary codecs and secretive nonfree binary blobs please see test screenshots that I conducted – you can ever so easily repeat the tests for yourself with any distro. Please let us know if you find anything that is intended for personal or small business use that is more efficient than Trisquel or Trisquel-mini LXDE.
Wo! – check out CPU peaking at 100% and RAM usage…. It's a no-brainer!

Trisqel-Load-01.png Mint19-System-Monitor-01.png
nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

Said copy of GNU/Linux Mint was initially downloaded and installed in 2012, when its version 13 LTS was released. It was the first version that introduced Cinnamon and MATE desktop environments. I chose the MATE edition, and performed version upgrades every half year. The system never crashed. However, I need to manually remove most non-free software/firmware after each upgrading.

After years of GNU/Linux usage, I discovered that I didn't need those proprietary software altogether. Therefore I gradually switched to Debian.

As I've complained for a long time, a major problem of Trisquel is obsolescence. Ubuntu LTS is by no means a good base, but probably one of the possible worst bases. It requires too much efforts to remove its anti-features, which in turn delays Trisquel's development even more, making Trisquel even older.

Legimet
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Joined: 12/10/2013

What is the additional effort from using an Ubuntu base? Besides the firmware is there anything proprietary included in main and universe? I thought the main issue was that Trisquel tries to remove all references to proprietary software, which would be an issue with Debian too.

Personally I switched from Trisquel to Debian several years ago for the same reason as you. The software in Trisquel is too old for my purposes. I now use Debian unstable, and surprisingly it has been pretty stable for me. I don't mind seeing an occasional reference to proprietary software; if I install something outside the repos I always check the license.

nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

Not all Ubuntu's anti-features can be found in its restricted/multiverse repositories. Some anti-features are planted in its ISOs. For example, preloaded non-free drivers, firmware, and codecs.

By contrast, Debian is much easier to cleanse.

Magic Banana

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Joined: 07/24/2010

Ubuntu's ISOs have no influence on Trisquel's development. https://gitlab.trisquel.org/trisquel/makeiso does not take an Ubuntu ISO at input. As Legimet wrote, what is cleansed are the packages in Ubuntu's main an universe domains. They are essentially all free software but some suffer from more subtle issues such as recommending proprietary software, and so do packages in Debian's main. At least, that is my understanding.

nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

If Trisquel's development isn't affected by Ubuntu (or any of its spins) ISOs, then it's good, because the developers just need to deal with its main and universe repositories.

But still, why not Debian? If we just want LTS, every Debian major release is an LTS one (about 6 years support). We can use Debian Installer (without firmware loading functionality) as the text-mode/network installer and Calamares as the graphical installer under Live session.

Legimet
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Joined: 12/10/2013

I'm not sure. I don't know of any major advantages that Ubuntu provides over Debian, so idk why they don't switch.