KDE vs GDM

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Psyber.Netik
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Joined: 02/08/2010

Is there a way to switch from GDM to KDE? I'm more familiar and comfortable with KDE.

Is there any particular reason why GDM was used instead of KDE? And, why doesn't the installer let you choose which like other distros?

f13ticket
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Joined: 12/30/2009

I am not sure of the reason GNOME was chosen. Some like it better. Both are Free Software, and powerful, and it's really a preference for what works best for each person. Myself, I prefer GNOME.

I think, just guessing, that the reason there is not an option to install from the disk is that the CD ISO image is already almost full and there would likely not easily be enough room on the disc unless other programs were removed.

I see a lot of KDE packages in the repositories. I do not know how to set it up though. I think there might be a way to install them and get KDE working here. I had thought about that myself and am also interested in learning the answer to that.

Even though I currently prefer GNOME, I'd like to play and work with KDE and understand and become comfortable with both of the graphic desktops.

flop

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Joined: 02/16/2009

Just go to Synaptic (or "sudo apt-get install kde") and install "kde". It is a metapackage that will install and configure automatically all the modules related to the KDE Desktop -it won't install development packages-. On your next session you will be able to select KDE as your desktop.

AndrewT

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Joined: 12/28/2009

"Is there any particular reason why GDM was used instead of KDE? And, why doesn't the installer let you choose which like other distros?"

GNOME, I believe, achieves the best balance of newbie-friendliness/familiarity and advanced usability. Unless you're in the same league as Linus Torvalds, who derided GNOME because of its lack of extensive customization, GNOME's options-to-userfriendliness ration will probably satisfy you in the long run. Each has certain superb programs -- like KGrubeditor or Dolphin for KDE, or Ardour or Inkscape for GNOME -- that have no direct equal in the other system, but otherwise it's a very subjective choice; a matter of preference, like choosing between ViM and EMacs.

Psyber.Netik
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Honestly... I just like KDE because it was easier to make it look like a Mac... or a Borg control panel. Plasmoids rock...

AndrewT

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Joined: 12/28/2009

TBH, I'm not sure why so many recent GNU/Linux users are heck-bent on theming their desktops to look like one of the most proprietary operating systems in history. To confound their friends?

Psyber.Netik
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Joined: 02/08/2010

It's actually more just to piss them off... Just being able to say, "hey, it looks like yours... but it's better in so many ways." That and getting it to look and operate like theirs and them tell them how much you paid for it. Not to mention throwing in the whole "you know that thing that blah blah won't let you do? well gnu/linux will do it."

That and it's helps with converting them over to linux when you put them in an environment that they're used to. You can't just stick it to them or they'll reject it. You have to ease it into them. ;)

AndrewT

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Joined: 12/28/2009

While it's truly sad that people require such forms of in-your-face persuasion in order to even think about reconsidering their current preferences, I do understand what you are saying. A couple acquaintances of mine became interested in trying Ubuntu only because they were wowed by Compiz Fusion's flashy desktop effects, and because with the Avant dock at the bottom, it "looks like a Mac". They tried it for ten minutes apiece, then ditched it as soon as their wireless cards refused to work right out of the gate, even though the issue could have been easily addressed with a bit of Google research (albeit, probably with proprietary drivers).

It's also sad that so many people use GNU/Linux because it's or they simply like it better, compared to the relatively few that are concerned . You can look at the mass of Ubuntu and (even more so) Linux Mint users that extensively use and enjoy their distro, basically riding on the coattails of the GNU project and all that the free software community has fought for all these years, without caring the least about issues of user and community freedom and open standards, in fact, BEGGING for more proprietary support for stuff like Adobe Flash (vs. swfdec, GNASH, or Theora in the future) and awful proprietary applications like Skype, NetFlix, and iTunes.

I've heard the "it's too much effort to learn something new" BS repeatedly in regards to GNU/Linux, and BS is mostly what it comes down to. If something is technically AND ethically superior, then the time and effort needed to learn it surely pales in comparison to the benefits! It's also a lot of effort to switch to solar and wind energy from petroleum, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't do their best to switch over to a superior way of doing things.

Psyber.Netik
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Joined: 02/08/2010

...basically riding on the coattails of the GNU project and all that the free software community has fought for all these years, without caring the least about issues of user and community freedom and open standards...

Amen to that! FSF Member #8193!

...ditched it as soon as their wireless cards refused to work right out of the gate...

True. I've taken the personal habit/responsibility of being their "tech support". In that case, when I install gnu/linux on thier computers I tell them to give me all the hardware (i.e. camera, iPods, cell phones, NIC's, and etc) so I can install, configure, and test it for them. 90% of the time it's something I've come across before. Since I've fixed it before doing it again for them is a lot easier. Sadly, a lot of WLAN NIC drivers in gnu/linux are binary globs. But, if it helps them move towards the FSF way then it's consequence I'm willing to accept..... for now.

...BEGGING for more proprietary support for stuff like Adobe Flash (vs. swfdec, GNASH, or Theora in the future) and awful proprietary applications like Skype, NetFlix, and iTunes...

It's like trying to get someone to quit smoking or drinking. Most can't quit cold turkey. But, you can give them option or alternatives to it. The FSF should never adapt to suite the proprietary software! However, I believe that those companies would be more willing to adapt to the FSF if they see a large customer base from it. To get that customer base you have to get them to use it happily first. And hopefully they'll see the light and help spread the word as well. In regards to netflix and iTunes; I present Hulu as a netfilx replacement do to that it's more or less the same thing. iTunes; I give them Amarok for it's ipod support, playlist generation, last.fm integration, and Magnatune integrated music purchasing. Since Google Voice recently became public; after Google's purchase of GrandCentral, I've been presenting it as a replacement to skype. Granted that it doesn't have desktop voip and video teleconferencing capabilities yet. But, I predict that eventually will Google will get there. Flash is tough one to alleviate. I seriously dislike it as well. But, it seems it's aesthetic capabilities is what's drawing the public to it. (I do some side web design and I always tell my customers that I refuse to use flash. But, I tell them that I can get the effect they want via CSS and java.)

I've heard the "it's too much effort to learn something new"

When I come across these I see them as weak minded fools. And like weak minded fools they're subject to the jedi mind trick. I clearly state "it's not hard at all, in fact it's a whole lot easier." Ask them something that they would consider "hard to learn or adapt to". If they respond with something the "learning process" has officially started. That is the time to confidently; yet subtly, educate them in the OS. Thus "teaching the user" and making them more confident and comfortable with it. I feel; and it's what I like the most about it, that the FSF community and culture is made up of both teacher and students. Everyone is learning from each other and everyone teaches those who do not know. The trick is not let them feel alienated for using gnu/linux. This process works. I've done it several times. That is to include a bit of a deeteedee stripper friend of mine who has hard time trying to remember things.. actually more like anything. Granted that I started her off on Ubuntu. So far as far as I know, the only thing I haven't been able to solve for her is Netflix (because she pays for it) and her silly flash based online poker game that she plays on facebook. Something about text not showing up in a certain area of the app; the flash part works though. I think the biggest thing that sold her on it was that I told her she didn't have to worry about viruses and malicious code because of it's "natural immunity" to it. That helped a lot because she likes to visit porn sites a lot ( as in more than I do to the point where I think it's unhealthy) and she uninstalled her anti-virus in Vista. She didn't like it because the icon was orange. (Feel free to laugh... I almost suffocated from laughter when she told me.)

AndrewT

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Joined: 12/28/2009

"Since Google Voice recently became public; after Google's purchase of GrandCentral, I've been presenting it as a replacement to skype."

A ready drop-in replacement for Skype would be Ekiga. The problem is that Skype plays very dirty to ensure that everyone goes only to their software, and everyone feels they have to since Skype is by far the most popular. Not only is their protocol a closed trade secret, but in fact the Skype application prevents a user from connecting to more than two users at a time that use a different protocol! And even if someone reverse engineered the protocol, Skype would probably just up the ante and patch their program to block such connections, or file a cease and desist. Skype is releasing proprietary software and standards, locking people away from communicating to one another, and creating a zero-game to increase profits.

"She didn't like it because the icon was orange. (Feel free to laugh... I almost suffocated from laughter when she told me.)"

That is facepalm material of a truly epic scale...

Psyber.Netik
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Joined: 02/08/2010

Don't you need to setup a SIP server to use ekiga?

AndrewT

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Joined: 12/28/2009

You don't have to setup the server. Ekiga.net already provides it; you just have to sign up for a username and password. You can also choose to use a different SIP server than Ekiga.net if you wish to.