Libre laptop in Europe
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Hi,
I've been considering migration from Windows to GNU/Linux for a few months, since I've learned about RMS, FSF, etc.
However, this completely libre distro has a very limited choice in hardware and I still cannot find a proper laptop for me.
I've tried it on my current ASUS 1015PN, but it has one of the worst (in terms of GNU/Linux friendliness) wireless drivers - this Broadcom didn't even work with Ubuntu and a few other distros I've also tried.
I've been reading these forums and so far I've found out these restrictions when it comes to new laptop:
CPU:
- Intel i3/i5/i7, Intel Pentium, Intel Celeron
- nothing else, not even an Atom (I wouldn't by another machine with this weak CPU)
GPU:
- Intel HD with working 3D acceleration
- hopefully not older Intel GMA models
- I wouldn't mind nVidia as an additional power, but I don't know if the newer cards and the Optimus technology are supported by a libre firmware/software
wireless card:
- only Atheros, nothing else (I've read that even Intel Centrino doesn't have a free firmware)
- not the hybrid bluethooth + wireless Atheros cards
brands:
- ASUS
- maybe Lenovo (I know Chris said many times that it restricts changing internal parts, but if it had proper wireless card and everything else, why not?)
- nothing else (not even ThinkPenguin, even though I'd like to contribute to this vendor and Trisquel, but I will only buy from a vendor in my country, I don't really wanna be sending the laptop abroad, not to say overseas, if something bad happens), brands like Acer or MSI don't really have a good support in my country, and I don't know much about others, at the time I only trust these 2 in terms of quality, service and availability
display:
- matte (I hate glossy)
size:
- between 11.6" to 15.6", although the 15.6" is already quite big, 14" is still very good
misc:
- HDMI support
- at least 1x USB 3.0 for fast file transfer
- at least 1x USB 2.0 for the backward compatibility
Are there any other significant restrictions that should've been mentioned (like the model of the Ethernet card, etc.)? Please feel free to correct me and add another important information, so I can have a clearer picture when choosing my next laptop.
Do you know about any laptops that would meet these requirements? I don't mind buying a refurbished one if the vendor is local. Just tell me any models you can think of (preferably ASUS and Lenovo), I will then look if it's locally available.
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I'm using an Asus 1001PX netbook and everything works using Trisquel and it even has a nice matte screen. The only downside is a wireless card that only supports b and g, so it doesn't work that well if there is poor reception (but connecting to home router is fine). The other downside is a combined headset/microphone port but the internal microphone works so I don't particularly mind.
lspci -nnk | grep Network
02:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Qualcomm Atheros AR2427 802.11bg Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) [168c:002c] (rev 01)
The problem is buy without Windows and OS X. Many laptops with pre-installed proprietary system works beautifully with 100% free GNU/Linux distros.
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My netbook 1001PX came officially with Free DOS (and unofficially with an unauthorized version of XP).
@aloniv: Thank you for the tip, unfortunately this is only 10" with Atom - maybe if some fellow countryman would be willing to trade it with my 1015PN, I would consider it (since they do not sell it here anymore).
What about video-playback? Does it play 720p video well?
What about other known issues (peformance/build related)?
If there is a wifi at school, it might not receive a proper signal?
When I connect via wifi to my router in the same room, then it's ok?
@icarolongo: And some laptops without Windows/OS X are not compatible with 100% free GNU/Linux.
There are not many without-Windows choices here. I've found these, but I don't have enough info if they'll work properly with Trisquel:
HP ProBook 4540s
Asus K53SD (glossy! :/ )
Lenovo ThinkPad x220i (has a good compatibility score on Ubuntu and LinLap, however it has the Centrino wireless card)
Lenovo ThinkPad B590
Lenovo IdeaPad Z500
ASUS EEE PC X101CH (very weak and only 10", however)
ASUS X201E (glossy! :/ )
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720P YouTube works but scene releases of sporting events such as tennis do not work. It's not much of an issue for me as I usually download 480P and can always transcode via ffmpeg to a lower quality file which is playable.
Wifi at university sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I tested Trisquel on a different Asus netbook with an Atheros card which supports also n (in addition to b and g) and it worked in the same place mine failed to connect - I think it is AR9285. At home I have no trouble connecting to router.
I didn't knew there should be an eye on the choice of the cpu.
Why is this so?
Do equal AMD processors and their integrated graphics work with Trisquel as well? I don't know, I thought Intel was the only reliable choice. Or is it only when it comes to graphic cards?
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AMD is tied to ATI and nVidia graphics chipsets. This means there will be no support for 3d acceleration. This is why the CPU matters. Intel's graphics which support 3d are in the CPU itself. There are no good choices beyond it for laptops. While in theory a laptop which uses an AMD/nVidia solution might work some day it'll probably not be for 4-5 years. At which point it may or may not work well or at all still. With nVidia you are reliant on a non-trivial reverse engineering project. It is at best good for recycling old systems. Not something which is going to support new hardware.
Thanks for this explanation!
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I want to comment on the brand issue.
Do avoid HP, IBM/Lenovo, Toshiba, and Dell. These companies are restricting what wifi cards can be installed in there machines. This is very bad! It means you won't be able to get the system working with GNU/Linux unless it already ships with an Atheros wifi card. Not all Atheros wifi cards will work or work well. So if yours works- but later realize it isn't working well there are no options to replace it with something better.
The local issue may or may not be an issue. Without knowing what country it's hard to tell. Brazil for instance isn't a country I'd suggest ordering a laptop from ThinkPenguin at this time. There are heavy duties (60%). On the other hand the UK, Spain, Netherlands, Canada, Australia, and many other countries in Europe are no problem. Shipping is fast, shipping prices are low/reasonable, etc. There is another group of countries which we ship too as well although it is slightly more expensive because of the countries unreliable postal system and/or slow customs (Germany). Most of our customers we have been able to work with on repair issues easily or worked with a local repair shop to avoid shipping back/forth. As has been commented many times we have an excellent reputation for making this fast/easy. Within the USA we often can get a laptop fixed and shipped back out within a 1-2 days. About half our laptops ship to customers outside of the Untied states so we are pretty good with customs/etc and know what shipping method/service to use and what the taxes, etc will be before you make a purchase. We stock EU, UK, AU, and North American AC adapters.
There is a graphics card with an nVidia chipset that works pretty well, it's the 9500GT, but it also is for desktops only.
As far as high end wireless cards go there is at least one chipset from Atheros that is (or should be) compatible with Trisquel. The one we sell just works great- but is not THE super-high-end wifi card I speak of.
What if I installed full (not just Live, but Full) Trisquel on USB?
Is that possible to run it completely from USB (without setting up everything again before each session)?
I would then buy a compatible USB Wifi-adapter for my 1015PN, so the wifi would work, too.
A live system is just the system on a medium that isn't your hard drive; there's nothing incomplete about it necessarily, so what you're describing is a live USB stick that has persistence (retains information it gets any given session). I think that's possible and you can get that with Trisquel's Startup Disk Creator, but I haven't really tried that much myself, since I prefer installing to the hard drive.
But I don't think running from USB would affect hardware compatibility. You can just as well use a USB wireless adapter with a system installed to the hard drive.
I think it can be done and will work just like on a HDD.
The downside is the USB sticks can't handle nearly as many writes as HDDs and can wear out.
(Also flash memory is faster than HDDs for random access but slower for sequential access, so the performance might differ somewhat.)
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I think the main problem with decent USB flash is not the number of writes so much as the failure rate due to power loss / disconnects which impacts all flash devices which don't have the circuity to prevent loss.
The other problem is flash is generally MUCH slower.
The reason I would install it on USB is that I don't know how it would work alongside Windows (7 Starter). I have two partitions at present and I don't know if it would be safe to repartition the drive at the moment (that's needed, isnt't it?).
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The installer can partition the drive for you. This is not a problem really.
So I will set a limited amount of GB for the installer, he will then partition those GBs into the needed part and won't touch anything else on the same drive and partition?
And when I decide I don't need that anymore, will it bring it back/departition it to the previous state?
Or how does it work?
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The installer will detect your Windows installation. It will give you the option to install Trisquel side by side with Windows. You use a slider to select how much of your hard drive to use for Windows and how much to use for Trisquel. The Windows partition is accessible from Trisquel, but not vice versa.
Getting rid of the partition is a bit trickier. I think the best way to do that would be to boot into a Live CD and delete the partitions manually. Then you'd have to use something like Gparted to resize the Windows partition.
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H-node.org is a good place to find freedom compatible hardware. You should check that out and also contribute your existing hardware to it. H-node is a hardware database which categorizes different kind of hardware like laptops, desktops and their internal parts based on their compatibility with free software.
I have an Asus Eee PC 1005PE which works fine after implementing a small fix which is described in h-node.
So I've found a local guy who is selling his ASUS X101CH, a netbook with the A-Platinum Trisquel compatibility according to h-node.
Reasonable price, a bit stronger Intel Atom than on mine 1015PN, I was even willing to have that weak Intel GMA without 3D support on Trisquel(according to h-node). Then I see some review on YouTube - this laptop has a standard of 1 GB RAM and I thought I would replace it with my 2 GB from the 1015PN. However, in that review I discovered that you cannot replace your RAM on X101CH like you can on 1015PN. I was the closest to a fine Trisquel-friendly laptop (maybe the small 10" could be better than too large 15.6" for the start), but still, there has to be SOMETHING on that machine to discourage me. This machine even has the good matte display...
Maybe this memory issue could be resolved by putting an SD card inside? Does something like ReadyBoost work on Trisquel? Will it wear out the SD card quickly?
Which features will exactly be limited by the lack of 3D acceleration? Sorry, if it is a n00b question, but I need to be sure. Movies won't be affected? If I don't plan to play any 3D games and do any 3D drawing etc., everything else will be OK?
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You probably won't be able to play high definition videos on an Intel atom system. I would also say 1GB of ram is inadequate to run even Trisquel 6 LTS at this point. You can probably get away with 2GB though.
3D acceleration is going to impact you more down the line. Trisquel does not need 3d accelerated card right now. However if it moves to a desktop environment that depends on 3d acceleration your system won't work any more.
"3d acceleration" is used elsewhere like with video playback too. It's not as big of an issue so long as your CPU is capable of doing the decoding. That is an issue with an Intel atom like you are describing though.
The other place 3d acceleration is used is games. Though even with 3d acceleration support your gaming options are going to be on the limited side.
Thank you for the clarification. For the purpose of testing Trisquel I'd like to buy a refurbished ASUS EEE PC 1001PXD which I found yesterday (only if the Support responds to my question about the network card and changeable RAM), it's been marked as Certified by Ubuntu where they say it has Atheros for both ethernet and wireless.
According to you response, if I would be able to put 2 GB RAM there, I should be fine with Trisquel 6.0 for some time. If me & Trisquel will be a success story, then I can proceed to buy a new, bigger laptop, with sufficient HW power and Trisquel A-Platinum compatibility (if there will be any in my country).
UPDATE: They told me that the graphic card is Intel GMA 3150 which should be fine (according to another topic here - https://trisquel.info/en/forum/can-anyone-tell-me-if-netbook-w-intel-gma-3150-supports-3d-acceleration ). However they also say that they cannot discover the network card models without knowing the serial number - which I cannot give them since I do not own the laptop. That's very bad because according to the 1001PXD Asus drivers download page, this model can also have a Ralink card which I am afraid is not supported in Trisquel.
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I think you've come across the big issue here with buying random hardware I'm always speaking about and why it's not really a great solution. Understandably everybody's situation is different and I have no good solution to offer other than pointers.
The problem is that model numbers don't equate to chipsets. Companies ship with different components and chipsets and depending on which set of components and chipsets you get will determine compatibility with free software.
While I can't guarantee anything here I don't believe ASUS has implimented digital restrictions on the mini pcie card slot. That means if it does end up coming with a free software unfriendly wifi card you will probably be able to replace it.
Now I don't know how easy that will be with this system although if you think your comfortable opening the system it may be a solution to this problem. For a decent percentage of systems this is easy. It's just a matter of unscrewing a few screws on the bottom. There is a compartment that is held on by these screws usually. It is fairly obvious. Less technical (although not non-technical) users often find it reactively easy.
Here is an example of one of our laptops with one of these compartments on and one with the compartment off:
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/files/kingpenguinphotos/kingpenguin5.jpg
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/files/kingpenguinphotos/kingpenguin4.jpg
This has 3-4 screws to take it off. Other laptops have a few different compartments with a single screw each.
Once it is off there is a screw to hold a small card on. Attached will be two antennas (usually just two, although sometimes three). Snap the antennas off, unscrew the card, and reverse the procedure with the new free software friendly wifi card.
There is also the easier although less desirable option of using a USB wifi adapter. No need to open the case in that situation.
Replying to comment #22
I've been able to run Trisquel 6 on a Celeron M with 768 MB of RAM. It's not particularly speedy, but it's not too slow, either.
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The full thing or a lighter version?
Trisquel 6 does probably use a bit less ram so it might work a bit longer/better than some other distributions although I'd still be hesitant to state 1GB is adequate.
I believe 1GB is still adequate if your running a modern distribution with a GNOME 2 derivative desktop environment, or a lighter environment maybe, like XFCE4, etc. However as soon as you move beyond that to GNOME 3, Unity, KDE 4 (at last newer versions), or something derived from them or its components, etc it becomes problematic. So... Trisquel 6 + some other desktop environment might work... fine.
We got wayyy too many support calls from people thinking there were hardware issues due to insignificant ram when we were offering a 1GB base configuration (for those actually trying to use the system with just 1GB) quite some time back (towards the end of that, obviously 4 years ago it wasn't an issue).
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I run Trisquel with 1 GB of RAM in the desktop from 2005 using E17 and it's quite snappy. On the netbook I also have 1 GB with Parabola and loading software takes a few seconds (e.g. 10 seconds to load Evolution or Iceape and longer to load bitcoin-qt), but the bottleneck is the Atom processor (and lack of a solid state drive) and not the amount of RAM.
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Yea- I wasn't even thinking about the ATOM CPU being a bottleneck although that is probably going to be an issue here too.
So we discontinued the original Penguin Wee because it had an ATOM that wasn't adequate for the job. It would run Trisquel 6 mind you- but slowly.
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