Linus takes a look at mirror, admits hostile comments alienate

11 respostas [Última entrada]
Joined: 02/17/2016

This is where the "look yourself in the mirror" moment comes in.

So here we are, me finally on the one hand realizing that it wasn't
actually funny or a good sign that I was hoping to just skip the
yearly kernel summit entirely, and on the other hand realizing that I
really had been ignoring some fairly deep-seated feelings in the

It's one thing when you can ignore these issues. Usually it’s just
something I didn't want to deal with.

This is my reality. I am not an emotionally empathetic kind of person
and that probably doesn't come as a big surprise to anybody. Least of
all me. The fact that I then misread people and don't realize (for
years) how badly I've judged a situation and contributed to an
unprofessional environment is not good.

This week people in our community confronted me about my lifetime of
not understanding emotions. My flippant attacks in emails have been
both unprofessional and uncalled for. Especially at times when I made
it personal. In my quest for a better patch, this made sense to me.
I know now this was not OK and I am truly sorry.

The above is basically a long-winded way to get to the somewhat
painful personal admission that hey, I need to change some of my
behavior, and I want to apologize to the people that my personal
behavior hurt and possibly drove away from kernel development

I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to
understand people’s emotions and respond appropriately.

Joined: 09/14/2018

im not terribly interested in skewering linus torvalds, and i never say anything about him ever without acknowledging his obvious and substantial contribution to free software (though he doesnt call it that. nor does he have to call it that. it would certainly be better...) but i dont believe him.

whatever hes talking about, i guarantee that any time he takes off for soul searching is not going to result in a different person. i could be wrong. even the best intentions yield mostly personal growth over time, not over vacation, so this isnt about immediate change vs. long term.

he might change his own behaviour in a superficial way that makes a number of people happy. my guess is, that underneath that change he will be exactly the same, and what lies underneath goes a lot deeper than etiquette.

if we get a more polite linus torvalds, hes going to be a more polite person who continues to sell out this community to corporate monopolies-- full stop. though my guess is that his change in behaviour will only apply to certain people (ones closer to him already) anyway.

the worst offenders dont usually apologise. but the foothold of monopoly on free software is larger than ever-- the linux foundation gets closer to being the linux microsoft foundation, and for all we know this change of heart comes directly from nadella. "linus, you need to say things more nicely." i doubt he will ever apologise for portraying the free software community as being "about hate." the worst offenders project their own feelings onto other people a lot, which makes them a little more likely to start initiatives for everyone else to be nicer.

every few years, someone in open source releases an article or starts some way of "healing" the rift in "open source." usually it just means "stop saying things that offend the corporations we like." not making fun of people who prefer freedom to monopoly is simply never part of this being "more polite." it usually leans more towards "stop disagreeing with us if youre a nice person." im not saying this is exactly what torvalds said, just that its the sort of environment he said it in.

i think that makes it pretty superficial, but if i sound cynical-- i have more faith in people than ever. just not every single person. and i hardly think torvalds is the only one, which is why i dont feel strongly about his story in particular.


I am a translator!

Joined: 01/11/2011

Linus should first and foremost apologize for accepting binary blobs into the kernel rather than messing about with whether other contributors' code is of sufficiently high standard (thankfully, those who provide binary blobs don't need to go through Linus's screening process as he cannot tell whether their code is good or not).


I am a member!

I am a translator!

Joined: 07/07/2017

> those who provide binary blobs don't need to go through Linus's screening process as he cannot tell whether their code is good or not

You make a very good point. It is bad that he accepts proprietary blobs, and it is also bad that he behaves abusively toward people when their code doesn't meet his standards, but it is particularly hypocritical to do both.

Joined: 04/23/2015

I read that Linus Torvalds is a Swedish Finn and I am one quarter Swedish Finn so I think we are related. There aren't that many Swedish Finns. Based on this I am sure he's a pretty good guy maybe blobs and all. A lot of geniuses are percieved of and probably are arrogant in manner. Maybe it's a natural temptation if you are always pretty much the smartest guy in the room. But here's to hoping he figures out how he should accomplish real and positive change.

Everything should be open source and blob free but since I still have trouble's getting it to work in every case despite having used GNULinux for quite a few years I don't see how free software will ever be main stream. I try to convince friends, neighbors and family on the merits of free software but no way enough people are going to demand anything re software.


This goes in a different direction but maybe it's time to start thinking about giving up Linux altogether anyway.

A week or so ago I read about some research that reminded me of the long awaited Hurd kernel.

This url links to one of the researcher's own sites:

also, their OS site ( says "The world's first operating-system kernel with an end-to-end proof of implementation correctness and security enforcement is available as open source."

A sampling from their research:

"It is intuitive (although not universally accepted) that a microkernel-based system has security and safety advantages over a large, monolithic OS, such as Linux, Windows or macOS, with their million-lines-of-code kernels.
Together with two undergraduate students, I performed an analysis of Linux vulnerabilities listed as critical in the Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE) database. A vulnerability is tagged critical if it is easy to exploit and leads to full system compromise, including full access to sensitive data and full control over the system."

Summary of their results:

"Taken together, we see that 45 (40%) of the exploits would be completely eliminated by an OS designed based on seL4!
Another 19 (17%) of exploits are strongly mitigated...
So, in total, 57% of attacks are either completely eliminated or reduced to low severity!
43 exploits (38%) are weakly mitigated with a microkernel design, still posing a serious security threat but no longer qualifying as “critical”...
Only 5 compromises (4%) were not affected by OS structure. These are attacks that can compromise the system even before the OS assumes control, eg. by compromising the boot loader or re-flashing the firmware, even seL4 cannot defend against attacks that happen before it is running."

Sounds impressive but this research may have a weakness. As Linux has matured so have the attacks against it. They are pitting their unknown OS against the identified vulnerabilities in the well known Linux. No one has been identifying vulnerabilities in their system yet since hardly anyone has ever heard of it. But if the next dominant OS in the smart phone market is based on their sel4 then a whole lot of people will get busy scrutinizing their microkernel based system looking for ways to compromise it.

But I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with the HURD.

Joined: 09/14/2018

"the future is already here it isnt just isnt evenly distributed"

there was a time when no one thought heavier than air flight would be mainstream either. i dreamed of fpgas in the 80s but i didnt think such a thing would ever be commercially feasible.

why when almost only progress is made so far, would people say "never" when its merely "not soon?"

there was no android, its more free than any other phone ever (still dont like it. also the stack isnt all free.)

i never thought they would legalise gay marriage in my lifetime. im glad they did, but in the 80s i never thought it would gain such mainstream acceptance. you just never know what kind of progress is inevitable-- but the progress with free software is fairly steady so far. then again, i dont think you can get asus eeepc at best buy these days.

hurd "works" (ive run it) but libertybsd would give you a more working system.

no reason to abandon the linux kernel now. develop hurd, run libertybsd if possible, linux will remain a good kernel for years at least.

Joined: 01/09/2013

Linus takes a look at mirror, admits hostile comments alienate??

What is linuS?

I never heard this one.


Joined: 09/14/2018

youve never heard of linus?

the fsf has a gnu "general" public license. thus the gpl outranks linus, both because the gpl came first and because linus is just a colonel. a general outranks a colonel.

Joined: 09/21/2018

There should be serious considerations of developing GNU Hurd to completion.

Joined: 09/14/2018

i would love to use the hurd, i dont think theres any indication that it will be better (in the near future) for anyones actual use.

its not like hurd is locked or abandoned, it just makes very little progress. the fsf could throw more money at it (or just run a "save the hurd" campaign) but it isnt necessarily where it is due to lack of funding either.

it would be easier to fork the linux kernel or perhaps a better idea would be to fork libertybsd. but for now, forking linux would be purely symbolic and for the most part, a libre fork of bsd probably wouldnt help much either. and theres no reason people cant work on those anyway-- the fact that almost no one does partly indicates the viability of doing so. the option is always there. id be thrilled to watch hurd or libertybsd gain prominence.


I am a translator!

Joined: 10/31/2014

Linus is rarely worth hearing of, well done Jodienda, you are doing a proper job.

Joined: 09/21/2018

Linus Torvalds.