Linux Action Show Trisquel Episode
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The episode will be posted to JupiterBroadcasting.com later today, and as of right now, you can watch it live and join into the chat on IRC!
I will edit this post later, when they aren't recording the episode live. Hurry up now, to catch the unseen parts of the episode that won't be in the final version of the episode! Just to let you know, Bryan, one of the cohosts from the infamous episode 200 is not in this episode.
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Cool, listening to the radio stream right now! The hosts are being plain silly :D
Also, they mentioned it twice already, that you can't play mp3s in Trisquel. Did they even try it out? I've had no issues with playing or re-encoding mp3s, never.
I think they falsely assumed that mp3s wouldn't run because the free nature of Trisquel, but never actually tried to open one up while they were testing the os.
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I'm not terribly surprised . Most reviews/articles/etc are of really poor quality.
What is this "Trisquel Linux" they speak of?
And here's the official link:
http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/23996/trisquel-gnulinux-review-las-s23e05/
To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed they didn't create thread about their criticisms before going right out and reviewing Trisquel.
I emailed Chris personally a week or two ago breaking down the need to review it and how it will be beneficial to the show.
Good job to all of those like myself and Nathan for being persistent with this. I know at times you think I am against this project but I really want it to succeed.
I just watched the episode and here is what I got from it:
1. They noticed that people on the forums are strong in their convictions and somewhat cultish and mean towards newbies. The reality is that people want to have stuff work and the forum members will respond by preaching instead of finding a real solution.
2. Wireless drivers and Flash do not work. That is a given.
3. Both reviewers said it was a gorgeous looking operating system and one of the best implementatations of Gnome 3. The default programs are good and it is familiar to those who have used older Ubuntu in the past.
4. Speaking of Ubuntu, they brought it up multiple times that it is based off of it, but the Trisquel team hides the fact. They even said it should based off of Arch instead. I don't see the point as Parabola already exists. This I highly disagree with as Ubuntu needs a libre alternative and benefits from Canonicial offering commercial support for free software. Having distributions based off of LTS versions REALLY helps. A rolling release would be stressful for a team that is struggling to maintain financial support.
Other than that, the review is what I expected from the LAS team. Both come off as technical in the GNU/Linux world but I get the impression at times that they aren't as well versed as those who fully embrace it. With their comment about MP3 playback, you don't need the ubuntu restricted extras package. Just install VLC or Gstreamer. Either they don't know of the alternative or are stuck in their ways.
Either way, it was free marketing for this operating system and hopefully with 6.0 the issues can be iron out and it can reach its full potential.
P.S. Did anyone find it humorous that the Trisquel review segment was "sponsored by System76" even though System76 builds systems with non-free hardware and software components?
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The review was extremely poor if you ask me.
They didn't understand the goal of the distribution. If anybody is still wondering what that goal is I'll tell you. The goal is freedom.
Despite stating it they seem to be under the impression that there was some other goal. Then Chris (if I recall) goes on to talk about Arch being a better base. Where he got the impression that the majority of users were technical is beyond me. The majority of the users here are far from technical. I'm actually shocked at the lack of technical ability of the majority here considering the difficulty of the distribution due to issues beyond our community's control.
The comments on the forum are also unwarranted. They didn't understand the posts because they aren't regulars on the forum. I'm pretty confident I know exactly what they were referring. The posts they read were responses to people whom had repeatedly asked questions about non-free software. Once a person is told that this isn't the place you'd think they'd get the hint and move on. There are distributions targeted at and for people of other political persuasions (hint: it's the majority of distributions).
Trolls aren't welcome on any forum and it is of no surprise the frank responses seemed unhelpful.
The regulars here frequently point out in a polite and helpful way to those who aren't trolling the issues with non-free software and why they won't receive help here. To even say that though is misleading because we do help. Numerous people including myself have pointed out solutions to non-free driver/firmware issues. It may not be a desirable solution although it isn't a problem the people here created. If you are wondering what the solution is the answer to that is buy freedom friendly hardware. Trisquel really does a good job making GNU/Linux easier for non-technical users. Trisquel is LINKING to a company (if it isn't apparent I'm the CEO) that explicitly supports Trisquel 100% of the time.
For a non-technical user it doesn't get any easier than buying a GNU/Linux friendly USB wireless adapter (and/or other hardware).
Ubuntu also has trademark restrictions. I forget what they are exactly although there are certain things you can't do or say if you swap out major components. They explicitly state if you makes changes such as changing the kernel you can't refer to Ubuntu. That may or may not be why it is "ignored". Ubuntu and other non-free distributions are also likely not mentioned elsewhere because the policy on this is one of rejecting / not supporting / not promoting non-free software. Ubuntu includes non-free software.
I did notice they made a comment about a hardware company that supports freedom- and then didn't name it. I'm sure it had something to do with the system76 sponsorship. We also kind of ignored them when they contacted us about sponsoring the Linux Action Show a while back.
About a year or so ago my brother, who is far from technical, got a laptop and had me set it up. It was a Dell and to my surprise, the wireless worked out of the box with the atheros driver. I then formatted the drive and installed Trisquel 4.0 from scratch.
Guess what? He has had a smooth time using and navigating the OS with the only issues being out of his control like a shoddy internet connection where he thought the wireless was having issues. I set him up with the HTML 5 YouTube and hasn't needed or requested the Flash plugin.
The point I am making is that I agree with Chris in how Trisquel isn't just for advanced users. It also shows the real strength of the OS that people like my brother can use the internet and LibreOffice without touching non-free software or even being aware of it.
I wasn't sure what threads the LAS team read that gave them their viewpoints, but if Trisquel's biggest flaws are wireless and Flash, then it is nothing to fret about. Especially if Flash is being depreciated or outright ignored on smartphones and tablets. Heck, isn't Windows 8 trying to depreciate Flash as well?
Within the quality limits of reviews in general that Chris has pointed out and the fact that they have no grasp of software freedom issues I thought the review was a favorable one. They expressed surprise at how well Trisquel works (you can do everything you want), that it is compatible with most hardware and gave it strong marks (best Gnome 3) for appearance. Given they're happy to talk about proprietary programs for GNU/Linux I'm pleased that they bust those myths at least.
It seemed to me that their criticism of this forum was derived from the fact that we won't help people to use proprietary software. They obviously see that as unhelpful. All I can say is full marks for being consistent with your ethics everybody.
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I don't understand how you can make the claim that this community is unhelp. Even to non-free software proponents. Myself and others frequently state that this isn't the distribution of choice if you are going to use non-free software AND that there are other distributions which support such features / have a similar look/feel.
The distribution does not support non-free software. If your goal is not to be free of non-free software than it makes no sense to use Trisquel. Trisquel has no major improvements that are unrelated to free software. The benefits of the UI are found in other distributions which DO support non-free software. I can name a few in particular that matchs Trisquel's UI and components (although won't as it is this communities policy of not supporting/promoting other distributions /w non-free software).
There are benefits to this distribution on the other hand other other free distributions. Trisquel is easier to use and has more support for free software friendly hardware than many if not all of the other free distributions. This is in part due to frequent updates and it being based on Ubuntu.
I don't get it either. This community is very friendly and helpful, even towards people who don't seem to understand the very purpose of the project. For some not-so-friendly advice, try to ask a naive question on the Debian user forum ;).
I don't understand how you can make the claim that this community is unhelp. Even to non-free software proponents.
I assume that instead of the personal 'you' the impersonal 'one' or specifc 'they' was intended or it is a transatlantic misunderstanding I certainly don't think this community is unhelpful.
I can quite understand how they arrived at their point of view. If you fail to understand that ethics are as natural to computing as they are to medical science, then you end up being distracted by the sort of cheap arguments of price, or function that also apply to free software. If function is a big thing then you then end up in the mistaken position of when you are not told how to gain more function because it isn't free you relate to it as 'unhelpful.'
Actually we're being very helpful in that circumstance. Using proprietary code is a big mistake. Helping people avoid that mistake is a good, helpful thing.
Have any of you read the recent comments at http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/23996/trisquel-gnulinux-review-las-s23e05/ especially by DarkAngel with the LAS host responding to him?
Basically saying that Trisquel is a one man show. That is true but also really sucks because it seems like Ruben is getting slower and slower with updates and isn't really showing that he can be reliant and consistent for a company that may want to use this OS and get some type of timeline.
Also talked about my excellent thread about Stallman on the Linux Action Show that eventually had to be closed due to the "cultish" nature of this forum.
One of the other links pointed out the thread I created about Disney talking bad about open source software in one of their shows. I was heavily against it and even emailed Disney corporate to have an intelligent conversation about it but Ruben closed it. What did that prove? It proved nothing besides how one sided, closed off from reality, and immature that Ruben can be at times.
What did this show and the feedback prove? That you guys come off as cultish and the odd man out even in the Linux eco system. Oh and that I am the most important person on this forum hands down.
El 07/09/12 16:57, name at domain escribió:
>
> What did this show and the feedback prove? That you guys come off as
> cultish and the odd man out even in the Linux eco system. Oh and that
> I am the most important person on this forum hands down.
>
>
Ignore_Troll_mode ON
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Please be aware of the forum guidelines in name calling and slander.
"Ruben is getting slower and slower with updates and isn't really showing that he can be reliant..."
http://trisquel.info/en/wiki/how-trisquel-made
Feel free to make a distro yourself. It's all free software.
excellent thread about Stallman on the Linux Action Show that eventually had to be closed due to the "cultish"
"Excellent" is a matter of opinion. It would seem you have a far bigger ego than RMS.
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
"The word cult in current popular usage usually refers to a new religious movement or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre."
Wow, good joke. ;-)
Besides, do you even know Ruben?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response."
Judging by some of the words you are using, eg. "cult" this would seem true.
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"What did this show and the feedback prove? That you guys come off as cultish and the odd man out even in the Linux eco system. Oh and that I am the most important person on this forum hands down."
"Oh and that I am the most important person on this forum hands down."
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
8/10 t3g, guaranteed replies
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Omg, all hail t3g, he is the most important person on this forum. I thought Ruben together with the members and the English translators were the most important people, but t3g proved me wrong.
Seriously t3g, that is an awesome accomplishment that you helped Trisquel get noticed by the Linux Action Show, but you keep talking about the downsides of GPL, the upsides of proprietary development models, etc. It might be true from where you're standing right now, but it's wrong in the long run. If one has to resert to doing unethical things, just because the economy doesn't (yet) work another way, it doesn't mean you've found out some alternative solution to the problem. The only solution is to reject non-free and to release everything under the GPL or some other compatible license. If it doesn't work out, that's bad and has to be addressed in the future. Not left behind like some utopian idea.
I've got no problems with someone releasing software under something else than the GPL (or comparable), if they can't find a different way of doing it. If you have no choice, you'll do what you have to do. But please stop promoting such things, you're just misleading people who read your posts.
I still use Trisquel but I am starting to get a little impatient as I want to upgrade my systems to to next LTS. While it is true that I could take Ubuntu and run scripts to cleanse it, there is a sense of community here.
Also, with Ubuntu 12.10 beta 1 out, hopefully there is some news soon about Trisquel 6 which is based off of 12.04. Realistically though if I were to deploy a free and cleansed version of Ubuntu as the head of an IT department, I would run the purge scripts on stock Ubuntu. I say that because I wouldn't be reliant on some guy in Spain and his free time with me being in the US.
I'm a "common user" and Trisquel is easy too much.
Recently with Ubuntu changes I'm thinking about switch to a full GNOME3 distro(like Fedora with linux-libre).
Fedora is a good distro, the only problem is the non-free firmware and I can remove with linux-libre[1].
I love the GNOME way, and GNOME 3.6 is amazing.
But in my heart I prefer Trisquel, but I don't know how GNOME and Trisquel works in the future. And I coming to be a membership =)
[1] http://www.fsfla.org/svnwiki/selibre/linux-libre/freed-ora
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'm not sure about Fedora although there are more free software related changes to Trisquel than libre-linux. It's not just the kernel that is an issue.
Here is a list of free distributions:
http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html
If you want to switch to Fedora you might want to take a look at BLAG. According to the FSF blurb it is a GNU/Linux distribution based on Fedora. Just running the libre-kernel script to remove non-free firmware is most likely not sufficient.
How I said before, I love Triquel and I use it. But the problem is: I like GNOME 3 too much and I don't like the recent Ubuntu changes(and Trisquel is based in this).
Ubuntu make the your "own GNOME" with many changes.
Example: Trisquel 5.5 don't have Totem 3.2, GDM 3.2 and others new application from GNOME. Ubuntu 12.04 based on GNOME 3.4 have the same problems: Totem 3.0.1, GDM 3.0, etc(like the past version).
But Fedora isn't like Ubuntu, with many non-free drivers e non-free software. Fedora include only free software. The problem, at least I always knew is only non-free firmware.
And, well, I prefer Debian-based, but without alternatives I'm considering using Fedora or Parabola(but I'm afraid to do something stupid in the rolling release). I'm waiting the LTS version of Trisquel and will use it.
Hey guys, Trisquel is famous in the media.
Now in the World of GNOME: http://worldofgnome.org/trisquel-gnu-linux-the-most-free-gnome-distro/
Trisquel surprises everyone. Many think it is to be a 100% free distro is a bad distro.
Another article with compliment, but with several errors about free software.
This is a terrible article. It's got factual inaccuracies: "FSF accepts LGPL ONLY under certain circumstances."
It confuses the concepts of free software and open source: "FSF has done amazing things for open source"... "Trisquel is actually an amazing distro for people that don’t like fancy things like Gnome-Shell, Cinnamon and KDE. Also if you want to be an Open Source activist, is the right place to start :)"
And it talks about non-free media codecs like they're a good thing: "Of course it also ships Libre Office and a bunch of Media Apps, but don’t expect non-free codecs here. However it is Ubuntu, you can install them :)"
I had no problems installing VLC and playing patented codecs such as MP3, all using free software. :)
I'm also running Gnome Shell - it was very easy to install:
sudo apt-get install gnome-shell gnome-session
Of course not everybody has 3D acceleration which is the main problem with GNOME Shell. Perhaps in the future this won't be necessary thanks to llvmpipe.
Also, the article says:
"Trisquel is based on Ubuntu 11.10 and it runs Gnome 3.2 but some of its modules are in Gnome 3.0."
This misses the fact that this is inherited directly from Ubuntu, ie. Ubuntu still ships some GNOME 3.0 software.
It is even simpler than what you wrote:
- patent-encumbered formats, such as MP3, are played (by Totem or Exaile through GStreamer) out of the box (no need to install anything);
- installing the gnome-session package is enough to enjoy GNOME Shell (the gnome-shell package comes as a dependency).
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