Running Temple OS

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andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

Temple OS booted up in about 0.5 seconds for me. I think it's probably using less than 0.1mb of memory, but I don't know how to check. I got to a screen where it asked me if I wanted to install the Castle Wolfenstein game, which I do, but I don't know how.

I'm just happy to watch it start up. I've heard a lot about it, and its eccentric developer.

The ISO is here, a 20mb download: https://christine.website/blog/templeos-1-installation-and-basic-use-2019-05-20
It runs just fine on just about any virtual manager.

The blogger who posted the ISO has a page introducing it and how to get it running as a live ISO or to install it. Here's some of the interesting things she says about it, pointing out that Temple OS is very advanced in some aspects of its design:
"TempleOS is a public domain, open source (requires source code to boot) multitasking OS for amd64 processors without EFI support. It's fully cooperatively multitasked and all code runs in Ring 0. This means that system calls that normally require a context switch are just normal function calls. All ram is identity-mapped too, so sharing memory between tasks is as easy as passing a pointer. There's a locking intrinsyc too. It has full documentation (with graphical diagrams) embedded directly in source code."

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andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

I'm watching an old DistroTube attempt at a walkthrough of TempleOS, but he's just as confused on what to do in the OS as I am. Fortunately, he figured out that the mouse works and so I figured out how to drag windows around and resize them.

Here I have the very cool choice of some "fun games" and some "unfun games". I want to try to figure out how to play Varoom.

temple3.jpg
andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

Well, I guess I'm playing Varoom.

I'm not good at this.

Wish I could figure out how much memory I'm using. It says I booted in 0.838 seconds. Seemed faster actually.

temple5.jpg temple4.jpg
jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

There seems to be something about used RAM in the information provided by the MemRep command ("MemRep;"), as well as on the pseudo-desktop monitor (repeatedly close processes using the "x" in the corner and eventually you land on the blue background).

The only problem is that it's a hex string.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

OK, MemRep; shows "Low Memory" for the kernel of 221,503 (after conversion to decimal), and "High Memory" of 2,147,483,647 (after conversion to decimal).

The "high" number should represent my total memory, since I allocated 2gb to the vm. If so, then the "low memory" might mean that the kernel and its processes are using 221,503 bytes. So, 221k to run the system.

If so, that's not bad. I guess our old systems that ran on less than 64k in the 1980's were very minimalist, compared even to this.

VGA memory is 786,431, or 786k. I've allocated 128mb of video memory, but it shouldn't have to use much, as it's hardly doing any video work.

Of course, I don't know if any of the above numbers actually mean anything at all. Just taking a wild guess based on what I'm seeing on the screen.

temple6.jpg
jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

64k for a graphical OS? I've got two decades of computing to catch up on...

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

No, we had very simple text based OS's at that time. Drawing a circle on the screen was a major accomplishment.

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

> Drawing a circle on the screen

Is that really a safe thing to implement? You think you are just drawing one circle, and you end up with nine evil entities swallowing the universe.

I bet you missed the small prints there: https://trisquel.info/files/byte_into_the_devil.jpg

"Circle n°7 on inquiry card".

jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

That makes more sense- it might explain why TempleOS is so bloated as well.

On second thoughts, apparently Davis had a preference for JIT compilation. That wouldn't do any good either (except for guaranteeing everyone has a copy of the source).

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

Yes, you figured it out: "Every piece of code in TempleOS (except the initial kernel/compiler) is JIT compiled on demand."
https://apoorvupreti.com/templeos/

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

More from that blog: "HolyC seems to be very similar to C, but it has something akin to a REPL. So you can run int a = myfunction(); without all the boiler plate required to create an executable and compile it in C. That's a pretty incredible achievement, and something I have wished C/C++ had for a long time!"

commodore256
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Joined: 01/10/2013

He's the smartest programmer that has ever lived

https://youtube.076.ne.jp/watch?v=o48KzPa42_o

Adrian Malacoda

I am a member!

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Joined: 12/26/2010

TempleOS is fully free software, isn't it? Is TempleOS eligible to be endorsed by GNU/FSF?

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

>"eligible"

There is an active fork called 'Shrine': https://github.com/minexew/Shrine

Maybe the Shrine devs will ultimately apply for fsf certification for it, I do not know.

nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

As an atheist, I don't wish to try something named "temple" or "shrine".

By contrast, I like the name "Kohjinsha" (literary, workers' dormitory) very much, although it's been discontinued for a long time. It's not a distribution, but used to be an Atom-based netbook manufacturer.

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

I felt the same way about Triaquel due to it being named off of celtic "gods" I put gods in quotes because I don't really believe in anything but one perfect God, aka the Trinity for the most part.

You are of course free to believe whatever. I do believe that if God exists which I believe he does, he will respect your right to be an atheist. The outcome of such things is another matter entirely of course.

That being said, my reasons for not using trisquel are not due to that. Its 100% due to me wanting something radical like Hyperbola. Devuan is on one comp though, with unstable.

I am merely here to see what turns up for the future regarding, free hardware news.

jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

While I completely respect your decision, doesn't rejecting things on that basis recognize them as having some sort of significance?

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

I can't speak for him, but yeah, I have a different reason now, its more or less, my desire to have a more minimal base for my OS.

As for kisslinux, that is too minimal xD.

Also not libre I am pretty sure, but yeah there is some significance.

It was a childish reason probably though before. ;)

jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

That makes sense- it's hard to make a change for the better sometimes, and you really need all the reasons you can get (I certainly didn't switch to GNU/Linux for moral reasons).

I don't think there's nothing childish or wrong about rejecting things based on name, however; trying to be rational can only achieve so much. It just seemed to contradict the non-belief in (other) gods I thought atheists and Christians practised, which you've clarified for Christianity at least. Thank you for that!

nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

There are no supreme saviors. Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune. -- Internationale

To be a communist, one must first be an atheist.

Fix a typo: Kohjinsha, literally workers' dormitory

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

> There are no supreme saviors.

No one needs saviors, who serves Cthulhu.

> workers' dormitory

Sounds good, hope it's mixed.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

Well this is embarassing - my little thread on a quirky little os has turned into a recruitment tool for communism. How could that be?

It's not like nadebula repeatedly does that on lots of other threads that have nothing to do with politics.

Must be my fault. Oh well, if you can't beat them, join them. Where do I sign up for my party ID card nadebula? Do I get free medical and dental benefits after I sign up? And I kind of want that free living wage check in my mailbox each month - working for a paycheck is a real hassle. Can you speak to President Xi about that for me? Tell him I'm not greedy - I'm willing to settle for only $25,000 USD per month. There's a good comrade.

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

Join us at Khubunthulu, anything else is futile.

No need for dental benefit, you'll become a squid anyway. Underwater beaks are much cheaper to maintain.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

Ahh, I see that you have been squid-ified. I should have suspected it when I saw that your avatars were recently re-written in Rust, and you put the "I bleed IBM blue" sticker on your laptop.

Communism, squid-ification - I feel I'm being pulled in two very desirable directions at the same time. What to do, what to do??

Maybe it would be good if my arms were longer and more flexible, and if I had more of them - that way I could be pulled in several directions at once with no discomfort...

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

> other threads that have nothing to do with politics.

All threads are political by nature. Denying this, is leaning dangerously reactionary.

Only Cthulhu can be both political and apolitical, and anywhere in the middle at once.

nadebula.1984
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Joined: 05/01/2018

RMS repeatedly said that free software movement is a political campaign. Therefore it's natural to discuss about politics.

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

True.

He also said he is Saint Ignutius. Therefore it is natural to discuss religion.

As a matter of fact, he also mentioned a couple of things about sex, plants and parrots. Therefore it is natural to parrot each other.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

I already said you convinced me. If you were a good comrade you would have already provided me information on my dental and vision plan and on my monthly living wage check from President Xi.

I hope I can sign and deposit my living wage checks with these new squid tentacles. Paper tends to get a bit damp when I hold it now.

jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

I apologize for my part in this- it appears the art of dodging the political Kraken is a fine one, easily mishandled in naivete.

Nevertheless, it appears you have at least been compensated with honorary squidhood. Gone is the pain of being caught without a pen!

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

>"I apologize for my part in this"

...said Kaiser Wilhelm as he packed Lenin into a sealed train boxcar and sent him on his merry way to Russia.

"Whoops!! Sorry Russia - I apologize for any trouble this may be causing you...."

"Hope this doesn't take me off your Christmas gift list..."

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

I get that's your belief, its not my choice to decide how you think, that being said, I disagree 100% with your definition of communism.

And for those who see this comment, who actually have read the bible, Jesus very often fought against people's comfortable life style, he hated what greed did to people.

Aka, whether you believe he actually exists or not, that is how he is described in the bible.

For those who are right wingers who claim the bible as their heritage, especially today in my country with the fringe trumpism, its safe to say, they are Christians only in name.

My point, don't give them any credibility, they really don't deserve it. They demonize the poor, immigrants and anyone who doesn't agree with them, they pervert the law, they punish the innocent and bless those who are guilty, need I go on?

This is the type of behavior I believe that gets you barred from heaven.

Should I judge all atheists because of Seth Macfarlene and his sexist ways, etc? No, so my point being, you are painting people with a brush.

You just hear the loudest voices more calling themselves Christians, I do not like nazis, like trump and his ilk.

They are dangerous and sadly also depraved and do not represent me and my idea of what Christians really are.

Btw, I bring that stuff up, because people in the world so often view the right wing as "religious" and being "Christians"

So to be honest, people who support some form of communism do more for Christianity then the people who hate it.

I will also add, even if they are atheists...

Because doing something good even if you don't like or believe in God is better than being depraved and saying your a Christian and doing evil things.

The four gospels actually prove my point regarding what Jesus supported and what he didn't pretty darn well.

Adding some clarifications in case I wasn't clear, a few times.

Avron
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Joined: 08/18/2020

I am a communist (and an atheist). In a way, this is what got me interested in Free Software, as I view Free Software and communism as ways of all people getting control over their own lives.

Side note: I never considered the Chinese governement, neither the current one nor any past one as communist. There was a genuine communist movement in the 1920s in China but it was crushed down by Chiang Kai-shek, communist ideas were then fully abdandonned by those who later became the Chinese government and they even crushed down those who did stand by their communist ideas.

Coming back to Free Software, I suppose that capitalists could rule the world in an unchanged manner even with all software being free software, but most people are used to a lot of non-free software and having to switch to other software is a giant burden, and then software being non-free is so convenient to make money and keep control that the capitalists are highly unlikely to consent to give that up, then a change to all software being free looks very unlikely to ever occur as long as we live in a capitalist society.

On religion, I used to say myself a christian before being communist. The clever people who convinced me about communism did, on purpose, not argue about religion, it is just that with a perspective of a better world and focusing on how to make it happen, I finally found religious ideas strange and and that they missed the point completely.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

Communists: everyone should become a communist
Also communists: everyone who's ever set up a communist regime has done it completely wrong

The rest of us: So --- do I get my free stuff, or what?

Also, thank you Avron - what this thread about a crazy man's attempt at an OS has really been needing is ... [checks notes]... more promotion of communism. Have an upvote.

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

> promotion of communism

Maybe it's a new flavor. Can we get a sample?

> upvote

Typical bourgeois obsession for voting.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

I am shocked that all of our communist loving friends don't immediately sell all their possessions and move from their disgusting capitalist countries to the friendly confines of North Korea to sample real live communism for themselves.

Shocked, I tell you. I'm sure it's going to happen any moment now.

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

Thanks for that amusing reply, it tickles me somewhat, not to the point of laughing, but its enjoyable.

Avron
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Joined: 08/18/2020

My intention was mainly to say that this was the origin of my interest for Free Software.

By the way, I think I will try Hyperbola at some point, thanks for the information. Temple OS, I don't know, I decided to restrict myself to distros following the FSDG (with a little exception for Debian sometimes).

jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

TempleOS is FSDG; the entire thing is in the public domain, and it almost certainly doesn't contain a single recommendation of non-free software- I don't think there's even any non-free software for it to recommend.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

It's also not worth trying out, other than as a curiosity or an academic study. Certainly not useful in any productivity sense. As far as I could tell from trying to explore it.

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

The problem I think is there is a different between religious meaning being a law keeper and strict, hypocritical nut and being Godly, meaning you are authentic, you try to be merciful and listen to Wisdom and you don't give advice regarding things you shouldn't do, if you will not take yourself and you try to be a very loving person who loves both people and God.

That is in my opinion the disconnect, I feel sad, that you never learned this and you gave up so soon...
I am not surprised, the right wing demonizes Christianity and makes it seem to be nothing more than religion which doesn't say you have a personal relationship with God.
Without having a personal relationship with God it is meaningless to be a Christian.
I do get promptings, for stuff I shouldn't do and I do feel presences of evil thoughts, emotions, feelings being attempted to put into me. That is what I think the devil is responsible for. I have to ignore those intimidation more than you know.

I am not sure beyond that or if me mentioning all this helps, but either way, I felt like mentioning it, in case it helps you understand somewhat.

Either way though, I do agree with you on capitalism, for a different reason as well, I consider it to be easily manipulated for the evil one's purposes aka, a dystopian type future.

Yes, china is dictatorship, communism doesn't equal dictatorship. You are indeed correct, as for non-free software, I begrudgingly sometimes have no choice it seems due to things beyond my control. I very much do not trust such things with my most sensitive data if I can.

My laptops all have some version of GNU on it. Hyperbola, Hyperbola, Hyperbola and Devuan.

My point of mentioning Hyperbola 3 times, is that's on 3 computers.

I hope this world improves as we as a people reject all these dystopian ideals. It will take time, but someday I am sure the people causing problems now, will get their just desserts, even if it happens beyond the grave. I think its better to take the option to believe things will be settled then to believe when you die, your gone forever.
Especially with all these nutcases out there doing what you would call Darwinism.

Aka drinking bleach, refusing the vaccine, using literal horse dewormer to cure covid-19, the non human version in some cases.

I consider that to be a lack of wisdom though.

Whether or not you except it, peace be with you man. Things will get better in the future. Time is the decider.

Magic Banana

I am a member!

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Joined: 07/24/2010

communism doesn't equal dictatorship.

As far as I understand, the main difference between marxism and the socialism that existed before Marx (and that he called utopian) is the dictatorship of the proletariat. It is supposed to be an intermediate stage. Nevertheless, in practice, once the vanguard party has the power, it seems more interested in becoming a new bourgeoisie than abolishing classes and going to the next stage.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

Upvoted for the clarity of your explanation, and because I can't help having a typical bourgeois obsession for voting.

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

Ah, so you are saying I got socialism confused with communism... .

Meh, I don't understand too much about communism. I get confused with both socialism and communism, from time to time due to how there can be multiple versions of certain government types and/or philosophies... oh well, my bad, you are probably right about this.

Edit: typo

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

It would be fun to see TempleOS sitting alongside Replicant: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-non-gnu-distros.html.

Although I always thought it is the FSF that should seek anointment from the Temple.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

I have an ominous foreboding that TempleOS is actually the gateway to R'lyeh, the underwater realm of Cthulhu, and that I have invited the Unspeakable One into this dimension by installing it on a virtual machine.

lanun
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Joined: 04/01/2021

I see. We have all just made a giant leap towards our ends.

Maybe someone could swiftly unleash our pet Kraken. Kraky the Kraken vs. Cthulhu in livestream VR would certainly boost the ratings of our new vlog and send the boring bald guys to the obscure corners of the internet archives. After which, the world may end.

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

I thought templeos was a meme mostly at this point.

Due to the sadness of the developer dying and it basically being dead.

Although, I didn't know there was a fork of it.

Fascinating indeed...

jahoti
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Joined: 07/31/2021

It probably is mostly a meme- the whole thing is very much art and not designed for practical use. It's quite practical to run in a VM if you want to try it; the entire codebase is public domain and the system requirements are not large at all.

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

I have seen pictures of it before, but my memory is a bit foggy, I will have to look again probably.

And yes, this does not surprise me.

andyprough
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Joined: 02/12/2015

>"I have seen pictures of it before, but my memory is a bit foggy, I will have to look again probably."

Look up ^^^
I put pictures in the first few posts.

SkedarKing
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Joined: 11/01/2021

I just looked, one of them reminds me very distinctly of amiga! Only the difference is pretty obvious as the freedom of templeos has to be vastly superior.

DOS and Amiga... ahhh the memories, more so with DOS, but meh... IF any of you desires to run DOS, I recommend dosbox or dosbox-x, but please if you use either one, don't let it connect to the internet when running whatever your running, especially dosbox-x. It's just not a good idea.

;)