tp link free router, what is gained by that?
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https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/free-software-wireless-n-broadband-router-gnu-linux-tpe-nwifirouter is a free router. It is a tp link tl wr841nd router that has librecmc http://www.librecmc.org/librecmc/wiki?name=TL-WR841ND installed. Thinkpenguin says, the router has to be v.8.2. I got told, that a router may be a combined router modem or just a router. Is the tp just a router? If that is the case, then what do you gain by using the librecmc tp router? There is no free modem?
It's just a router. The combined modems+routers, AFAIK, don't meet the FSF's Respects Your Freedom criteria. Obviously, we should also have free modems although I don't know anyone working on that. In the meantime, it's still good to use free software on the router so I'm not sure what you mean by asking what someone "gains": They "gain" a 100% free software router. The modem remains unchanged but it doesn't have to change for us to "gain" the router. Hopefully things will change and we'll "gain" the modem too. In the meantime we've "gained" a router. :)
> https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/free-software-wireless-n-broadband-router-gnu-linux-tpe-nwifirouter
> is a free router. It is a tp link tl wr841nd router that has librecmc
> http://www.librecmc.org/librecmc/wiki?name=TL-WR841ND
> installed. Thinkpenguin says, the router has to be v.8.2. I got told,
> that a router may be a combined router modem or just a router. Is the
> tp just a router? If that is the case, then what do you gain by using
> the librecmc tp router? There is no free modem?
As jxself says it's just an ethernet router. But for many types of
broadband connection that is all you need e.g. many modern cable
connections the ISP provides a modem and a separate ethernet router,
the same with what's known as FTTP (Fibre To The Premises).
As per the D-Link DSL-3780 thread here there are often security
problems with cheaper 'consumer' grade broadband routers or
router/modems. This is because the manufacturers build them at lowest
cost and that includes skimping on the firmware. Maintenance on them
is an expense and therefore is skipped or ignored also.
So a router which uses a libre firmware distro is going to be more
secure to start with. In particular AFAIK OpenWRT, the open source
firmware distro which is LibreCMC's upstream, hasn't had a significant
security problem in ages. Further as with all free software distros
any security bugs are given priority attention which is often not what
you'll get from a manufacturer.
With router modems one of the reasons for there being no libre
firmware is that it would need an expensive telecoms certification.
It's the same with the modem code in Replicant phones - at present
it's proprietary and even if someone wrote a replacement then the
users freedoms aren't really there because if they changed the code
and did their own build they would need to pay for certification to be
legal.
There are open source firmware distro supported ADSL modems which have
blobs. These are still a better bet than a manufacturer's firmare
build, because the security problems are usually in other parts of
the firmware build. Just you still can't trust it completely and
won't have all your freedoms. So I suggest you follow
networking best practice which is to have an ethernet modem (this free
software one) inside that. Leave the network zone in between to be
your DMZ for Internet facing services and stuff for which there is no
free software replacement as yet. Then put the free software
computers and devices in your inner network. That's what I and a
friend do.
Thanks. With what is gained, I meant on privacy and security. If assumed that the free router is more secure against hacking and an adversary's snooping, then what is gained if the modem just before is proprietary and maybe is prepared for surveillance by an adversary? A certification? Is that something like buying a ssl certifikate? How do you find modems that come close to free modem? Are there close to free modems that have low energy usage to avoid that using the free router doubles the amount of electrical power?
Once your traffic has left your router towards the modem then there are many points of exposure. And a lot of those are much more attractive vectors for security attack than the modem.
The advantage of a free software router is you have removed an additional component of exposure vs proprietary. That is with the better record of free and open source router security you have reduced your threat level. Also the router contains a firewall, so with it you secure your network against intrusion and more so with a free software router.
If you want actual security against the threats outside (modem outwards) then you should use encryption - a VPN, HTTPS, GPG email, Tor, etc. All of which are good antidotes against being snooped. The last two being known to foil the NSA and Five Eyes at present. Banks etc encrypt all traffic that hits the telco equipment like the modem for their private networks, and have for literally decades.
The certification is proof that the device meets goverment or international technical standards of compliance with telecoms/radio standards. E.g. it has the correct electronics so it won't damage the telcos equipment.
The router modems which maximise your software freedom but are not fully free are those supported by open source firmware distros like OpenWrt or DD-WRT. However, there are a plethora of firmware projects list here[1], some of which are listed as free - so try those first.
For power requirements you will have to do the donkey work and compare several supported modems/routers for your connection type by their specifications on the web. Sometimes the power usage won't be listed, sometimes it will. Then you're left with asking on the free software firmware distros forum I would guess.
However, if you're using ADSL2+ then at present there is only one, the Buffalo wbmr-hp-g300h, and it consumes 24W max.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wireless_router_firmware_projects
Also in general a telco modem for cable or fibre connection is not on the Internet, so the threat from overseas intrusion and compromise is significantly reduced - in theory at least.
Thank you again. Well written answers.
Tonlee
There is other options as for "WIFI-Routers".
LAN side
For example:
For my home/BUSINESS, network#1 is on 5 PC'S. network#2 is my own HOME PC;S and the rest for my Internet Cafe!
I use IPFIRE! What I did? one of my desktop PC's was converted to an IPFIRE-FIREWALL/ROUTER. I did Purchased 2 nickcards with Atheros chips, and a 24 port gigabyte switch. capable of 10/100/1000. After reading and taking "NOTES", specially the "do's and dont's, on how to install IPFIRE be configured properly, configure,"My Network",I was done in 2 hours.
pro's
1- Is very stable,secure and it does his job in accordance to their web-site comments.
2- It does routes efficienly with the latest IP-TABLES.
3- As for "WIFI"," HOT-SPOT" I got the new insane Asus RT-AC66U AC1750 Wireless Router. flashed by me with the newst Tomato version.
In my opinion Tomato is more cleaner than DD-WRT. DHCP and bandwith management is disabled and any WIFI inbound or outbound traffic is monitor by my IP-Firewall. You have to download the patch for it to work with IPFIRE is like having a manageble cisco router running VLANS, etc.
4- IPFIRE does offer updates.
5- Bandwidth Managemnet and HTTP RESTRICTIONS AND forcing HTTPS is awesome.
6- Antivirus definitions are excellent, If you have WINDOX machines.
Con's
You NEED TO "BE" AND have patience WHILE installING IP-FIRE, be able to take a LOTS OF notes and REMENBER IPFIRE it is not "a WALK IN PARK."
Other Comments
As for the router that Think Penguin is selling, there is nothing wrong with it, in my opinion is just for home use. It is a good router, but not my cup of tea.
The price is fair.
Average price of this specific Wi-Fi router model (TL-WR841ND) is ~$25.75 at our domestic market: exactly two times cheaper than a price of ThinkPenguin, $52 without shipping. I just don't get this "multiply by TWO" pricing policy...
Also, that is 2.4GHz 150Mbps router, while some people like me would want a modern 2.4Ghz/5Ghz 300Mbps-450Mbps.
Devices with free software should be competitive by price/specifications ratio, otherwise the humanity would be forever stuck in non-free world! :-(
And I want a pony...
The point being if it wasn't clear is that sure we'd all like a very modern ridiculously cheap device. I know I can't provide people with one, looks like neither can ThinkPenguin. Can you?
The point here is: it is bad to distribute exactly the same hardware for the double of its real price. If ThinkPenguin's price would be at least $30, not friggin' $52, only then I would consider it as a honest price
Also there's the cost of 'remanufacture' on top for TP. I.e. Building the libre firmware and loading it on to the device. And since TP's CTO is involved with LibreCMC presumably there's additional monies spent on maintaining the build. That is definitely worth it in terms of the security and freedom of the router.
Of course some people expect libre to be gratis, but in fact it never happens - somewhere down the line somebody is paying for what you download for no fee. Even if it is simply by not taking a wage for doing the work as Ruben does.
That's just silly. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. The hardware is the same and the software (firmware) isn't, is that really so hard to grasp? And calling some pricing dishonest is just stupid, prices can be low or high but those can't be honest or dishonest.
Can you make a libre router at a cheaper price? Thought so. Please put your money where your mouth is, I'd love to be proven wrong.
As a note in the product page says:
"There is only one revision of this board at this time which is fully free software friendly and compatible with libreCMC. In almost all instances router model numbers are not sufficient to determine free software status or compatibility. There are currently no other routers with the right revision of this board readily available as stocks are depleted-or have the wrong revision."
In other words, that $25 router you're talking about? Probably doesn't work with LibreCMC. Think Penguin only sells the one that does, and ships it with LibreCMC.
This means two things: you're guaranteed to actually get the hardware you want (the hardware that works with LibreCMC), and the supply is shorter. It makes sense, then, that the price would be much higher.
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