Youtube: "Go upgrade!"
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Hi,
Since today Youtube seems to refuse to play videos, telling me to 'go upgrade' my flash player. Is this the result of swfdec not being maintained (I read that somewhere on this forum) and does anyone using gnash have the same problem? I wonder whether google somehow dropped support for older flash players, which I presume you could compare swfdec and gnash to. Because I was under the impression that you didn't need the newest flash player to view youtube videos.
Sorry for the double post; apparently my topic was posted even though my browser showed an error after clicking 'save'.
You should be able to watch videos on youtube, as well as links to youtube videos on other sites without flash at all. Just install greasemonkey, then download and install the scripts from http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/50771 and http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/46219. They are all free software; greasemonkey is under the X11 license, the first script is under the GPL, and the second script is in the public domain.
I ran into the same problem over the weekend, with youtube asking to upgrade the flash player. I installed greasemonkey and both scripts following the directions on the Trisquel manuals page but could still not play videos. I checked the settings for greasmonkey under tools and both scripts (youtube perfect and the embedded version) were there.
In searching around the web for help I ran across a discussion related to this stating that Google wants to use the H.264 (patent issues) standard for youtube to move users from firefox (open source) to chrome (closed source) since there's an issue with firefox supporting the H.264 standard. The reasoning this being that since google and youtube are the #2 and #3 websites, users will switch to whatever browser gives them the best access the sites they want. I am not sure why there couldn't be a plugin to handle H.264 the same way that flash is handled, although with flash there are libre alternatives, where as with H.264 I don't think so. There are other people that must know more about this and perhaps another thread is the best place to discuss it... just my thoughts. In any case, another reason to support free (libre) software and standards.
Weird, while installing greasemonkey I checked to make sure youtube still didn't work, but it did. Maybe just a temporary thing then... But thanks for showing me a non-flash solution! I thought you either needed flash or a free version of it.
I am glad it worked. I will have to go through the process again and try to get it working. Although I don't watch much video on youtube, I like to have things working to demo the OS to other people.
2010/3/15 <name at domain>
> I am glad it worked. I will have to go through the process again and try
> to get it working. Although I don't watch much video on youtube, I like to
> have things working to demo the OS to other people.
>
>
In my humble opinion, you should not depend on YouTube support to show
Trisquel to other people. Remember that Trisquel is about freedom and
YouTube's service is not for free software users. If these people don't
migrate to Trisquel because YouTube doesn't work, it probably means that
they are not ready to be free software users.
I think that using these services that don't care about you (free software
users), and using programs that read formats that are not made thinking of
freedom, is not a good thing for a libre society.
--
Luis Felipe López Acevedo
http://introsmedia.tuxfamily.org/
I am a translator!
The Greasemonkey solution should still work in any case.
But we should encourage people to use Dailymotions' Openvideo portal for cooperative online video sharing, and encourage Dailymotion to continue and expand their support for Theora. YouTube is only getting worse for our community, not better, and YouTube's enormous size, scope, and profit margin guarantees they won't listen to us, anyway.
Your point is well taken. In saying "I like to have things working" I am not concerned with YouTube so much as being able to play streaming video. I tried openvideo.dailymotion.com and most videos work well. Unfortunately, so much of the streaming video and interactive content, including games, seems to be delivered (if that's the right word) using flash. Personally, I can do wihout most of this, but sometimes the kids like to watch videos from National Geographic (flash) or play games on miniclip (flash) and it would be nice to have the ability.
--------
Follow up: Just tried to view a news story on Dailymotion and got this:
"Page forbidden"
"Houston, we've got a problem..."
"You don't have permission to access the requested URL."
Don't know if there's an issue with the web site or DRM issue. In a strange way, it's kind of amusing, talking about open formats, free software, and then this.
The video viewing options are actually not working, except for the HD22 type. Downloading works fine. Viewing with swfdec also works, but only when I open a video in a seperate window (the arrow at the upper right of videos). So I'll have to scour the internet as well, I guess.
Hi akirashinigami, I have installed this OS only today and until now not familiar with completely free OS but seems like youtube/google and MS have made our lives too much dependent on them. However I wanted to watch youtube videos but even after applying your solutions, can not watch the videos.
Is there any more help on this?
I am a translator!
Google's recent actions with YouTube and H.264 are nothing more than an attempt to lock users in to their proprietary Chrome browser. They're becoming as bad as Micro$oft. It was inevitable, anyway.
Read this manual about how to get video working without Flash. BTW, I've recently switched from swfdec to Gnash, as the latest versions of Gnash have already surpassed swfdec.
EDIT: I've just tried playing YouTube videos with Gnash and now I just get a blank background and an error message. The Greasemonkey fallback is the only way to play YouTube videos for now without using proprietary software. When I check the SWF versions on the videos, it appears that they've updated to SWF 9 and 10 for all their content, which Gnash can barely handle.
YouTube is a major stumbling block for our community, especially now that Google's business policies have taken the situation from bad to worse. Dailymotion has been much friendlier to free software and open standards and and we should support them in their continued proliferation of the Theora format.
The sad thing is that we live in a world full of people that don't care as long as they get to watch their random laughing baby videos, unfunny Family Guy jokes, and grainy 10-second upskirt clips.
Andrew,
What you say is so true. It seems the computer has moved into the arena of the appliance, much like the TV or microwave. Buy, plug it in, and go with little thought as to what goes on under the hood. Right now it may not make much difference to most people because their day to day use is not affected, but one should look at the Kindle incident, where due to restrictions on two books, the company was able to erase already downloaded copies from the Kindle readers without any user interaction. Users interviewed were surprised this could be done. What's to say that in the future content providers won't delete content on your PC unless you agree to their terms, such as... We see you downloaded that song last year and unless you pay a fee it will be erased...
With open source, the capabilities of the software, for better or worse, are there for everyone to see, and it would be harder to bury this type of code in there.
I am a translator!
"Users interviewed were surprised this could be done."
Such information is important. It confirms that the average user is ignorant. He or she must be reached and educated however possible about these issues. If we highlight the most obvious abuses like DRM, remote spying on the user, and Tivoization, it will call attention to the more fundamental issues.
"We see you downloaded that song last year and unless you pay a fee it will be erased..."
This already exists in the form of DRM, except with DRM the file is rendered useless instead of deleted. Personally, I buy all of my music in CD format (except for classical, where I try to find the recordings I like best of individual tracks, generally from libre sources like Musopen) because more of that money will (however little) will end up paying the artist, and because there's a particular good feeling that comes with owning an album in the original, physical format with all the artwork. Same with movies. This is one problem the free software community can help overcome simply by ignoring the machine.
"With open source, the capabilities of the software, for better or worse, are there for everyone to see, and it would be harder to bury this type of code in there."
We shouldn't use the term "open source" unless very specifically referring to the development model, because all it can refer to is a development model, not to the user's freedoms.
I don't know if I would say the average user is ignorant so much as unaware, just as many are unaware that their car's computer stores information that can be extracted or that cell phones can be used to locate them (how else would the provider be able to connect them). With technology getting more complicated it can be hard to get people interested in caring sometimes, although a clear, simple explanation would surely help make people aware of what's at risk. Technology is great at distributing information and connecting large numbers of people over vast distances, but it can also be used to concentrate power in the hands of a few.
As for buying music/video in CD/DVD format, same here. It's less likely to be lost (as in inaccessible) than an electronic copy. BTW thanks for mentioning Musopen. I will try it.
I will be more careful with the term "open source". I've used the term "libre" before. Perhaps I should stick to that when refering to software that has the source available and can be used, copied, distributed and modified as the user sees fit.
I am a translator!
"Technology is great at distributing information and connecting large numbers of people over vast distances, but it can also be used to concentrate power in the hands of a few."
...which is a very good reason that we should fight every attempt to turn the cooperative, decentralized internet into a Microsoft or Google bulletin board. As for cell phones, the OpenMoko project is in jeopardy, but I think we should regroup and work on a libre smartphone again. Hopefully, it would actually work well as a phone next time. Google Android is to be avoided, because it locks in the user, and its app store makes no meaningful distinction between free and nonfree software.
"BTW thanks for mentioning Musopen. I will try it."
It is a wonderful source of free cultural Classical recordings. See also IMSLP for music scores, for whoever is interested in them.
"I've used the term "libre" before."
"Free software" is really the best term I can think of when talking about it with the average Joe. You just have to clarify it and say: "I'm actually talking about the kind of software that you are free to use, modify, and share however you wish, although the software also doesn't cost anything." "Libre" is a good and precise term to use when speaking to others in our community, but it's not a term that every person on the street can be expected to understand. For practical reasons I even avoid the oft-used phrase "Free as in Beer" when referring to software with no monetary fee, because when you use that example people tend to miss the point and say stuff like, "I don't even drink beer". X-D
At least in Spanish there is gratis and libre, whereas in English we only have free and free...
@AndrewT
Symbian OS is now Free Software. :)
I am a translator!
Yeah, I actually heard the news the same day that they released everything as Free Software under the EPL. This is wonderful news for phone users, as roughly half of all smartphones run some version of Symbian.
>Google's recent actions with YouTube and H.264 are nothing more than an attempt to lock users in to their proprietary Chrome browser. They're becoming as bad as Micro$oft. It was inevitable, anyway.
I though that only applied to watching YouTube videos using HTML rather than Flash. As far as I know, the Flash video player on YouTube haven't drastically changed in recent months.
A recent change to YouTube requires newer versions of the Flash player (SWF 9 or 10) to work. The free implementations, Swfdec and Gnash, have limited compatibility for SWF 8, 9 and 10. Swfdec is no longer maintained. The Trisquel 3.5 repositories include Gnash 0.8.6, which does not support SWF 10. The latest version of Gnash, 0.8.7, has better support, although I haven't tried it yet. If you are having trouble with Flash and want to install Gnash 0.8.7, instructions can be found here:
http://trisquel.info/en/forum/gnash-087-stable-35-realese
We also need to keep in mind that although this discussion centers on YouTube, designers for many other websites also use Flash to deliver content or add eye candy. Many of them may not realize the impact it has on those that use free (non-proprietary) software or how it builds dependence on non-free software for web content... one more area to build awareness on and educate people about.
I am a translator!
They're offering HTML5 as an alternative, probably more as an outreach to the mobile market than anything else. But it's bad that they chose a patented, closed standard like H.246 for that alternative just because it's an advantage for their proprietary browser (Chrome) rather than choosing Theora.
Google certainly isn't letting go of Flash on YouTube anytime soon.
Hi
Please see my post on this, SEARCH IS your friend!! :) lol
janus
Dear Janus,
where is this post of yours about videos on you tube?
Hi
I forgot that I didn't specifically put "YouTube" in the title, sorry.
http://trisquel.info/en/forum/xine-gui-plays-last-video-wont-play
janus
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