Do you recommend Trisquel to others?
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I've used Trisquel for a few years now, and I had hoped by now I would be familiar enough with the system to recommend it to others, but there's something that stops me. It might be a combination of multiple things, but it's difficult for me to figure out why I'm hesitant.
I think my main concern is that something might break with someone's Trisquel installation and they won't know how to fix it.
For example,
currently I get an error when I try to upgrade from Trisquel 10 to 11. I suspect this is because I previously upgraded from Trisquel 9 to 10, but it could be because I installed something from outside of Trisquel repositories. I tried to replicate the error on a VM but was unsuccessful; I get errors as soon as I try to update on Trisquel 9, which makes sense because it's no longer supported. The issue could be kind of my fault, but it affects my view of the system regardless - it means I don't have enough information to say whether unmodified Trisquel is reliable. Additionally, I installed programs from outside of Trisquel because I found the main system lacking, and it seems plausible that others could have reasons to install programs from outside of Trisquel repos as well. Guix may help with this, but it's too soon for me to tell.
Some other things that may contribute to my hesitancy to recommend the system to others are that I do a lot of things with the terminal but don't expect typical users to use the terminal, and that some links to documentation don't work (e.g. in Abrowser settings).
It's questionable whether the particular problems I see with Trisquel that I bring up matter, but for some reason I am hesitant to recommend Trisquel. I do sometimes tell people that I *don't* recommend Windows, and I occasionally tell people I think Trisquel, Guix, or Hyperbola are better, but I'm unsure of what I should actually be recommending.
What kinds of recommendations do you make to people regarding operating systems? Why?
I do not recommend any other distributions, and if the computer is not compatible, what I recommend is that you sell the computer and buy one that is compatible. When new users do refuse to study how their new system works and ask you for help. You can start a lucrative technical service business. I'll always tell them that if they're going to change the system, they're going to use other programs, which do the same but differently. I would never take a Trisquel user to install software that is not in the repositories, except that it is also free software. Because I think doing that means taking them to division and helplessness.
What sort of problems do people ask for help about?
As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, one should make sure the onboard wifi chipset is compatible with libre software. And if it is not, advise or provide a compatible USB adapter. Especially in cases where Ethernet may not be an option, but also in cases where it may be.
That said, I have been recommending and/or installing Trisquel since Belenos the same way I used to recommend and/or install Ubuntu in earlier days. No complaint, no insuperable hurdle, and a beautiful learning curve where the user becomes the actual owner of their computer.
The only users who firmly declined going for a fully free system were heavy gamers who valued graphic card performance above all. They would probably have been asking for help about problems using non-free firmware.
Certainly, only with free software can the user recover their own sovereignty and therefore, ownership over their computer.
I am a translator!
I recommend Trisquel to anyone already using some GNU/Linux system but I explain that they will have to use a USB adapter for wifi and check whether they are currently using some non-free software for which they can't use a replacement.
For people using Windows or MacOS now who absolutely want to have the wifi of their laptop work and to use certain non-free software, I suggest Linux Mint, but I tell them that I can't help them that much with it, while with Trisquel I can.
currently I get an error when I try to upgrade from Trisquel 10 to 11
This kind of operation is only every 1.5 year or so, then I think you could assist them for this. I would assume that the easiest is to backup user data, make a fresh install and restore user data.
I installed programs from outside of Trisquel because I found the main system lacking, and it seems plausible that others could have reasons to install programs from outside of Trisquel repos as well.
Flatpak is probably the easiest method, but indeed it is command line. That said, flathub provides the commands, one only needs to copy paste, and most users don't install new software so frequently.
I do a lot of things with the terminal but don't expect typical users to use the terminal
I have a natural tendency to use the terminal but I try forcing myself to search for graphical tools for every day tasks and use them so that I am able to help users that prefer not to use the terminal.
One thing for which I could not find a solution is to enable the backports, but that is a one-time action, so perhaps not such a problem to use command line.
some links to documentation don't work (e.g. in Abrowser settings).
Which one for example?
>One thing for which I could not find a solution is to enable the backports, but that is a one-time action, so perhaps not such a problem to use command line.
Enable backports using GUI?
You can use software-properties, if you use KDE, then update to the latest software-properties release to have a visible tool in the menu.
Cheers!
Regarding "I explain that they will have to use a USB adapter for wifi":
I use Trisquel mini 11 on a hp Compaq Mini CQ10-400, wifi has worked on it from the beginning, without any problems, without(!) a USB adapter for wifi.
Regarding installing software from outside of Trisquel, I think any flatpaks are probably pretty unlikely to break anything since flatpak is part of the Trisquel repos and the flatpaks themselves are sandboxed. When I first started using Trisquel I downloaded various .deb files and .sh installers, as well as enabling PPAs. More recently I haven't been doing that as much, instead using better methods like flatpak and guix, although I do still use some programs from pip and I have the deadsnakes PPA enabled still. I'm not sure whether it's because I didn't know about better options, or because better options have appeared recently. I see that yt-dlp is in aramo backports but not nabia-backports, but then I also somehow didn't understand what backports was until just now, so maybe it's a combination of both. Aside (if anyone knows): why isn't backports enabled by default?
I have a natural tendency to use the terminal but I try forcing myself to search for graphical tools for every day tasks and use them so that I am able to help users that prefer not to use the terminal.
Cool to know that I'm not the only person who tries to do this. I still end up using the terminal for a lot of things though.
Regarding documentation links, one example is triple-equal-sign -> Settings (or type in "about:preferences") -> "Learn more" next to "Enable Container Tabs", it links to https://trisquel.info/en/wiki/containers which doesn't exist
Also, totally unrelated, but my post preview is showing https://trisquel.info/files/repository_0.png as an attachment?
Just putting this here for reference, the broken documentation links in Abrowser are due to a change of app.support.baseURL to https://trisquel.info/wiki/ [1]. For Firefox, that would be something like https://support.mozilla.com/1/firefox/129.0.2/Trisquel/en-US/ instead. As for actually fixing the issue, I think people could copy/modify relevant info from Mozilla pages to Trisquel wiki pages (Mozilla content appears to be CC-BY-SA-3.0 [2]).
[1] (Requires JS) https://gitlab.trisquel.org/trisquel/package-helpers/-/blob/aramo/helpers/DATA/firefox/settings.js?ref_type=heads#L70
[2] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/licensing/website-content/
I recommend Trisquel to every one I talk to about it. I appreciate Trisquel's dedication to freedom and respect to privacy but also have had virtually nothing but rock solid performance from it. Usually, I make my recommendation without a shred of hope that my recommendee will in fact give it a try. If one did express an interest, I would offer to assist. After they save everything they need to keep on a flash drive or DVD, and assuming that the Trisquel Live operates OK, we could create a '/' partition and a '/home' partition. If their hardware isn't supported I probably would suggest Fedora. If I manage to get a Windows user successfully using any version of GNU/Linux they can learn about it and eventually upgrade to purely free versions when they are ready.
Very nice replies here!
I also recommend Trisquel, and even though I know little, I've helped with installation, setup and some questions, common (or uncommon) to new users. I find I learn by giving support, and that is a big fat bonus.
After that there is the forum, which I'm also happy to recommend.
I tell people about Trisquel and I install Trisquel on fmaily member's computers when their Windows dies and they need me to get them on the internet. But almost nobody ever asks for my recommendation. Even though my friends and family know that I make my living working with computers, they don't ask my opinion on what OS they should be running. That's probably because most people don't even know what an OS is, or that you can change it. Most of them just know they've either bought a Windows or an Apple computer, or a Chromebook. They don't seem to understand that the operating system is different than the hardware and can be changed.
Amazing to hear that! I wish we were family, so I could ask your opinion on everything computer, face to face... and, as it seems, without competition :)
Well you know a lot yourself! I'd be the one calling you for advice.
I'd be the one calling you for advice
Oh Andy, that would make my day!!
I find it's hard to know what we know, specially if most of what we know comes from guessing. The more I guess, the less I know what I know!
I am a member!
I do not recommend Trisquel to friends or family. I can't justify recommending my folks buy inferior hardware, like the old TP USB wifi thing, for some dubious notion of freedom. I also can't justify suggesting my folks pay the "freedom tax", for old hardware. I paid a premium for a rebranded Cleevo, from Think Penguin. I also don't want to undo or teach my folks how to undo application program configuration choices, the Trisquel team has set up in their rebranded Firefox and Thunderbird. Here, I speak to, among other things, Pidgin being set up such that an apparmor profile prevents it from being accessible with the screen reader, for one. Your Thundervird is set up such that neither the wizard, nor manual configuration, will allow it to connect to gmail, and who knows where else. I worked around this by putting an old ".thunderbird" folder and calling it ".icedove" in my home folder. I don't know all the changes you may have made to Firefox for our supposed own good. I gave the boyfriend a mainstream laptop, bought at an appliance store, with Linuxmint installed, and he's happy so far.
>"Your Thundervird is set up such that neither the wizard, nor manual configuration, will allow it to connect to gmail"
Sounds like an awesome advantage to running Trisquel! I guess I'd better start recommending it more, keep people from getting all their data slurped up by gmail and sold by Google.
+1 andyprough, couldn't agree more, what a perk to shout about!
I am a member!
Is the rebranded Cleevo really that bad? I really thought the Think Penguin T4 laptop was a great deal, considering it was a shiny new computer that was guaranteed to work with Linux-libre. Much better than my ancient ThinkPad X200.
I run two rebranded Cleevo's at work, both from NovaCustom. I love them - unlike other modern laptops they have a real HDMI port and a real ethernet port built right into the sides. And you can order them from NovaCustom without a webcam or a microphone and with an Atheros wifi chip if you want, for better privacy. Very hard to beat compared to nearly any of the conventional modern laptops.
I Talked with others about Trisquel GNU/Linux, but problem is people like me in 20s age, are mostly using only smartphones with non~free software as base.
I'm mostly new to topics about free software activism.
I cannot upgrade to Aramo. The option is not there. I am using Trisquel 10 on a system that was upgraded from 8 to 9 to 10 on a Lenovo x250. Support is running out for the Trisquel 10 release in May. Although I was still able to identify myself with an e-ID card reader for receiving invoices, previously existing files for the only approved electronic signing software "eParakstitajs3" in Latvia have now been removed from Ubuntu's focal repository. My certificates are no longer visible after failing the attempted upgrade.
Somebody Please Help!
Please, run this on your Terminal (Ctrl+Alt+T):
cat /etc/apt/sources.list
ls /etc/apt/sources.list.d
cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/eparaksts.list
and paste here.
# deb cdrom:[Trisquel 8.0 _flidas_ - Release amd64 (20180417)]/ flidas main
# Trisquel repositories for supported software and updates
deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ nabia main
deb-src http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ nabia main
deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ nabia-security main
deb-src http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ nabia-security main
deb http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ nabia-updates main
deb-src http://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ nabia-updates main
# deb https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ flidas-backports main
# deb-src https://archive.trisquel.info/trisquel/ flidas-backports main
# deb https://www.eparaksts.lv/files/ep3updates/debian bionic eparaksts
# deb-src https://www.eparaksts.lv/files/ep3updates/debian bionic eparaksts
deb https://archive.trisquel.org/trisquel/ nabia main
deb https://www.eparaksts.lv/files/ep3updates/debian focal eparaksts
deb https://archive.trisquel.org/trisquel/ nabia-security main
deb https://archive.trisquel.org/trisquel/ nabia-updates main
deb https://archive.trisquel.org/trisquel/ nabia-backports main
---------------------------------------------------------------
eparaksts.list
eparaksts.list.save
ubuntuhandbook1-ubuntu-annotator-bionic.list
ubuntuhandbook1-ubuntu-annotator-bionic.list.distUpgrade
ubuntuhandbook1-ubuntu-annotator-bionic.list.save
-------------------------------------------------
deb [arch=amd64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/eparaksts-keyring.gpg] https://www.eparaksts.lv/files/ep3updates/debian focal eparaksts
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the Terminal, paste this:
sudo sed -i 's|deb https://www.eparaksts.lv/files/ep3updates/debian focal eparaksts||' /etc/apt/sources.list
And after this:
cd /etc/apt/sources.list.d
sudo rm eparaksts.list eparaksts.list.save ubuntuhandbook1-ubuntu-annotator-bionic.list ubuntuhandbook1-ubuntu-annotator-bionic.list.distUpgrade ubuntuhandbook1-ubuntu-annotator-bionic.list.save
Done! Now you can upgrade your Trisquel GNU/Linux.
You should open a new thread on this forum: https://trisquel.info/node/add/forum/50
Anyway, what happens when you try to upgrade, executing the following command in a terminal?
$ sudo do-release-upgrade
All updates needed to be installed first.
Then I returned to gui.
I had been doing only security updates.
When I changed that I saw the option to upgrade again.
I am a member!
I don't know if I could recommend Trisquel to random users. Maybe if they agreed to buy a laptop from Think Penguin, which supports Linux-libre, could I recommend Trisquel.
I recommend Trisquel just about anytime someone talks about OS's. People are so universally angry at Windows these days that there's a lot of conversations about them wanting something better. I would say that at dinner parties when I'm meeting new people that the subject comes up more than 50% of the time. Recommending it is easy - "Why would you not want to use 100% free software? You need to try Trisquel GNU/Linux - it even has a live USB you can download for free and try."
People sometimes respond that they have some program they must use - I think Adobe Photoshop is about the most frequent. I respond "Gimp", which they usually curse because they don't like the layout of the icons or some silly reason. If they took the time to learn Gimp like they learned Photoshop, they should be able to do pretty much everything they wanted to do. I'm not a graphics design person, so I never could understand why people get so obsessive about their one particular photo editing program. They seem to all do similar things to me.
Another way I recommend it is when I teach adult Sunday school at church and when I lead bible study online, which means two classes on most weekends, I always use LibreOffice Impress on Trisquel for my slides. New students usually ask me, "What's that, it doesn't look like Windows". Bible believing Christians are more concerned about their online privacy for some reason, so I respond with, "I'm using all free software Trisquel GNU/Linux - you should try it, you can really control your online privacy much more than with Windows."
Just to point out, last September in this post I said that people don't usually ask my recommendation: https://trisquel.info/en/forum/do-you-recommend-trisquel-others#comment-177581
And that is still the case - almost no one ever ASKS my recommendation for what operating system they should use. But increasingly people have been complaining about their Windows systems more and more, and I very frequently GIVE my recommendation whether they like it or not.
If I have to listen to people whine about Windows then they should have to listen to me promote Trisquel. That's only fair.
A belated Thank you to Icarolongo!
Upgrade proceeded normally.
Upon reboot I had the new graphics logo which disappeared.
I tried rebooting to Recovery mode and checked if the upgrade was incomplete, but no errors were found.
All that I needed to do was enter startx after logging in to the console. Strange, but I can live with that.
... but you would probably live better without that, wouldn't you? Is a display manager actually installed? You can search for the packages "gdm3", "lightdm" and "sddm", which are the most popular. Only one is needed. If a display manager is already installed, try reconfiguring it from a terminal, with sudo dpkg-reconfigure.
Thank-you Magic Banana
Logging in and entering startx is a breeze for now.
For your/our/my information:
dpkg -l | grep -e gdm3 -e lightdm -e sddm
returned no results.
cat default-display-manager
returned:
/usr/sbin/lightdm
For what it's worth I tried
sudo apt-get check lightdm
It returned (regardless if it exists?):
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
I rechecked dpkg --list | grep lightdm
with no results among 2901 lines
I'm assuming I can go ahead and install any display manager I want without expecting any further conflicts.
Candidates: LightDM, SLiM, XDM, GDM, SDDM, KDM, Ly
-----------------------------------------------
The reason I came to Trisquel from Ubuntu12.04 was simple.
Alt+Tab wasn't switching between the terminal and other windows equally in Ubuntu. That didn't seem serious.
Trisquel 6, however, toggled all windows equally. I have not looked back ever since.
I diligently keep records of terminal commands and displayed results (up to 514 lines) with Mate Terminal in Trisquel distributions. I avoid using pointing devices and much prefer keyboard shortcuts.
With Aramo, only the visible part of the terminal text gets selected. A workaround is to hit F11 full screen and repeatedly hit Ctrl+"-" to zoom back to the smallest font before doing Edit->"Select All" which then captures almost 300 lines of terminal text.
Mate Terminal 1.26.0, unlike Mate Terminal 1.24.0 has dropped support for Edit->"Select All" access to the entire scrollback buffer.
I have now installed Konsole which by default has access to all 1000 lines of the scrollback buffer regardless of Window size, but lacks support for the same number of background color intensities. I can almost live with that :)
I'm assuming I can go ahead and install any display manager I want without expecting any further conflicts.
Yes, you can. Go ahead.
There is also xdm as well. I use it on one of my devuan computers. But you do you.
EDIT:
This post doesn't go against forum guidelines, so could people stop childishly thumbing me down for nothing.
I started with Ubuntu
Then QubesOS (to get virtual-machine working and disposable vm)
Now on Trisquel and PureOS [2 free OS]
I was under the impression that QubesOS was secure.
But their main template are Debian (full of binary blobs)
I use gnome-boxes for vm
The cloning dont work but snapshots do (which is good enough for me)
I never depends on any OS.
All my data are on multiple NAS.
If an OS crash, I just re-install everything.
If a computer crash, I just use another computer until I repair it.
I stopped trading security for convenience
I started with Ubuntu
Then QubesOS (to get virtual-machine working and disposable vm)
Now on Trisquel and PureOS [2 free OS]
I was under the impression that QubesOS was secure.
But their main template are Debian (full of binary blobs)
I use gnome-boxes for vm
The cloning dont work but snapshots do (which is good enough for me)
I never depends on any OS.
All my data are on multiple NAS.
If an OS crash, I just re-install everything.
If a computer crash, I just use another computer until I repair it.
I stopped trading security for convenience