Getting started; and Tanaris vs Brigantia
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Hi everyone!
I joined the FSF a little while ago and just decided to install the distro that came on the bootable USB card. I was amazed by what a simple install it was. I'm just wondering about version - it's Taranis LTS till mid 2013, which isn't really all that far off, so I'm wondering whether it'd be smarter to install Brigantia (or even Toutatis and help with some bug reporting if it's stable enough to put up with the alpha. Though I suppose I'd still want to re-install to the production release anyway.)
What's your preferred version and how do you find the upgrade process when there's a new release?
I've been mostly using openSUSE plus sometimes playing with other distros and I'd like to try to keep my system free this time. Unfortunately when I'd got my last laptop I'd decided to stop 'wasting time' with Linux (long story) so I stupidly chose wireless with nonfree drivers (Lenovo 2x2) but I have an old wireless dongle that is sort-of doing the job for now. I prefer that to having to do workarounds to make non-free drivers work. Lesson learned anyway. When I can afford it I plan on getting a laptop and tablet from ZaReason.
I'm pleased to see that Trisquel has a nice active forum where the focus is on good free software and not on whatever workaround to make proprietary software work. I do still dual boot Windows for university software and a bit of gaming, and TBH nonfree games don't really bother me (at present, I may change my mind as I learn more) - too much ethically, because that's a choice that doesn't affect other people, but I feel the operating system, communications etc should definitely be free - if someone sends me a document that requires non-free software to open, that's a problem and they are making a choice that affects me.
So anyway, hello...! If there are any interesting threads you think a newbie ought to read, please add a link.
I wiped my system and reinstalled around a month ago. I tried installing Trisquel 4.0, but the installer seemed to be broken. Maybe it was just something I did wrong - I don't know.
You could try installing 4.0, but IMHO it would be easier installing 5.5 and upgrading to 6.0 LTS later (or helping out testing if you have time).
I hope you enjoy using Trisquel, BTW. :)
Thanks Andrew. I went ahead and installed Brigantia and it's better - the display is improved for one thing, I haven't explored everything yet.
I'm really impressed by how complete and sophisticated the system feels. I was expecting to have to take a fairly big step backwards.
The installer did seem to hang on both occasions - 4.0 from the card and 5.5 from the USB stick I just made - but tapping ESC and a few random keys a few times, seemed to unstick it... oh and in the latter case removing the network connection... luckily I'd seen another post on the forum about installing without the network.
All good now, running updates.
Good to hear you got it installed okay.
> The installer did seem to hang on both occasions - 4.0 from the card and 5.5 from the USB stick I just made - but tapping ESC and a few random keys a few times, seemed to unstick it...
I can't remember if that was the same problem I had with 5.0 earlier this year, using the GUI installer. Did you use the GUI installer? It could be a bug...
I know that the text-only installer doesn't have this issue though, because that's how I got Trisquel 5.0 installed after having issues with the graphical option.
> I'm really impressed by how complete and sophisticated the system feels. I was expecting to have to take a fairly big step backwards.
Judging from a few posts I've seen, other people are the same. Besides some minor bugs, GNOME fallback mode is actually pretty good. Ruben (the Trisquel founder) does a good job at putting everything together.
I am a member!
Just a quick comment about free software. While most distributions/projects are based on free software very few are honest about the freedom bit. Pretty much everyone ignores freedom for the sake of convenience. Both projects and companies. There are all of two companies I'd buy from when it comes to hardware. One is ThinkPenguin and the other is lulzbot. :) Yes- I'm the CEO of the first. Of distributions which respect your freedom there are roughly eight. Most companies/distributions are shipping with non-free software or selling hardware thats dependent on non-free software.
Some of the biggest red flags that a company is not really freedom friendly: they ship computers with Intel wireless cards (there are no free drivers/firmware for these cards) or have nVidia graphics cards. There is one exception from nVidia and it is no thanks to nVidia. There is a reverse engineering project to produce a driver. The one chipset that is sufficent to use is quite old. Sufficent for most users although not to be found in your laptops or modern desktops. We're the only company that offers systems with it-so..
And even of those shipping with Trisquel the hardware may not work! When I've mentioned various issues about Intel wireless cards not being compatible or nVidia chipsets I've basically gotten shurgged off. They don't care. 99% of people don't know/or don't care and it's more about publicity for them than freedom. While I'll admit we sell very little hardware to free software users comparitively I care enough to make sure we don't use chipsets that are hostile to users freedom. If nobody cares we will always be at the mercy of companies which make things difficult. And most people don't even understand the problems introduced by non-free code. This includes the developers half the time.
Almost forgot. If you end up using Trisquel (or even if you don't) the project could use the money. Consider becoming an associate member or making a donation:
Become an associate member:
http://trisquel.info/en/member
Makea one time donation:
http://trisquel.info/en/donate
There is also the gift store:
https://trisquel.info/en/store
And hardware (25% of the profits go to Trisquel):
http://libre.thinkpenguin.com/
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Chris.
It's always puzzled me that hardware companies don't get behind free software. I suppose (and certainly from your comment about sales) it must be a smaller niche than I imagine, but I'd have thought there was great potential for really good hardware. Perhaps Linux hasn't quite been ready either, but the quality of Free software is so amazing now, it's frustrating if the machinery lets it down.
I care very much about freedom; I'm still learning, of course - recently read a biography of Stallman, and some of his papers, and while I'd previously been a bit skeptical about his uncompromising approach, it makes a lot more sense - he's great at explaining things in layperson's terms.
If I continue using Trisquel - and I think I will - I'll certainly contribute to the project. I'm passionate about Free Speech, but I don't mind paying for my beer :)
cheers!
I am a member!
While there is a lot of good free software I don't think we should fool ourselves in thinking it is all great. Really the technical advantages of free software exist with and without the quality. There is one chipset with a free driver that is just garbage. Unfortunately we have no alternative yet *something we are working on though*. The free software brings advantages to it that don't exist though with other chipsets. I'm not too concerned that support is going to be lost tomorrow for instance. And the driver has gotten better even if it is still leaves a lot to be desired.
Yea- contribute to whatever free software projects you can. It really doesn't matter which. Ultimately we all benefit. There are some that are more in need than others. Trisquel is definitely one of them if you ask me and some of the project the distribution relies on. Such as Lightspark, Linterna Magica, and a few others that bring flash support for instance to free distributions.
Let's remember FSF's High Priority Free Software Projects: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/
What I could propose to you (if you decision is not already made) is to use Brigantia, just to try it out, see how it works, play a little bit etc...
But when Trisquel Toutatis 6.0 is out (maybe before the end of the year ?.. but it is not so far from the release date in my opinion), then just format Brigantia and install Toutatis and you will be good for a couple of years :D
I'll be honest... if Toutatis came with Gimp 2.8, Netbeans 7, a functional version of Youtube-dl, Gnome-Shell 3.4 working (or at least Gnome-shell 3.2 without bugs), and a compiz without the snap window bugs.
I will (without thinking twice), use Toutatis as my one and only Distribution until the next LTS is out (and you are hearing that from an Arch/Parabola Gnu/Linux user :D).
4.0 and 5.5 are losing support at around the same time, so there really isn't any reason to use 4.0 instead of 5.5 unless you already have it installed. Whether you prefer 5.5 or 6.0 depends on whether you can stand the testing, of course.
About nonfree games: that's about the position that I had when I first used Trisquel. There are a few reasons I stopped playing nonfree games:
1. It does affect others, though indirectly: by playing nonfree games (or worse, buying them), I would implicitly give a seal of approval to the game, encouraging the development of more nonfree games.
2. If I make an arbitrary exception for nonfree games, people can rightly accuse me of being a hypocrite.
3. It can be easy to view games as entertainment/artistic works rather than functional ones, but this is an oversimplification. The fact is that the source code performs a function, even if its eventual purpose is entertainment.
4. If we accept games as nonfree games because their function is not actually useful, then we come to the question of what software actually does something useful. For example, would it be OK for KStars to be nonfree, since Celestia is better anyway? Or is it OK for analog clock drawing programs to be nonfree because digital displays work just fine? But then, what if it turns out that one of these programs was tremendously useful for a particular purpose?
5. Similar to the first point, by playing free games, I indirectly encourage the development of more free games, which is good.
By the way, my exact position on games currently is that the program (i.e. engine) must be free. The art assets and other nonfunctional game data can be nonfree, in my personal opinion. For example, I still play The Ur-Quan Masters and AssaultCube, and I would consider playing any of the original Doom WADs with a free Doom engine to be perfectly fine (though I don't because I don't own copies of these games, and I don't have any interest in them). I do, however, strongly encourage free art, and any game which is completely free (including all nonfunctional game data) is better than an equivalent game which is only mostly free (free engine, but nonfree non-functional data).
If the game data includes scripts, it is important to note that these scripts are functional, so they must be free, just like the engine.
And who tells that a game is not functional? It may contain some spyware or even some backdoor. Who can tell without accessing the source code.
Besides, the freedom 2 (the freedom to distribute exact copy to help your neighbor) should not be forgotten even for the artistic material.
Ah yes, I forgot to list the malware possibility. Thanks!
I agree that being able to redistribute exact copies is an important freedom and copyright should be like that by its very nature, but if we're going to say that it's ethically acceptable (even if not preferred) to watch a movie, read a book, or listen to a song that does not give you this freedom, I think it stands to reason that game data (levels, graphics, etc) is the same way, unless the game data is something functional like a script.
Pretty well said.
However, Magic Banana have a point too.
This game data problem is a huge one. It is ridiculous if you can't improve/reuse graphics, and share the results.
Thanks for the points about security and freedom in gaming. Very interesting and thought-provoking.
And before anyone says that PC game backdoors are just a "conspiracy theorist's wet dream", read these first!
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/10/blizzard_entert.html
In 2005 Blizzard was found to install spyware on gamers' computers "to prevent cheating".
http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/09/11/149228/activision-blizzard-secretly-watermarking-world-of-warcraft-users
Blizzard's WoW game has been secretly watermarking screenshots with potentially identifying information in them.
http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/07/30/1214206/ubisoft-uplay-drm-found-to-include-a-rootkit
Ubisoft has apparently distributed rootkits on people's computers in the name of preventing cheating.
http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/1838237/ubisoft-has-windows-style-hardware-based-drm-for-games
Some users of Ubisoft software have found their games "bricked" because they apparently changed their hardware too many times.
It turns out free software is important for games. Free software would allow a community to remove these anti-features, and stop users from being mistreated.
Thank you for those links. We could also talk about DRMs such as the "online-only" ones. Blizzard latest games (StarCraft II, Diablo III, etc.) are famous for that. This is obviously unacceptable: the player must be free to use the game without an Internet connection (to play solo, to play in a LAN, etc.).
I don't believe that freedom should apply to cultural works. We may have to agree to disagree on this.
In terms of cultural work (so we are talking about non-functional work) my opinion is that there is a bunch of freedoms that need to be available and used, as the redistribute freedom as an example.
In terms of game, in my opinion, and since the videos, animations etc.. are non-functional the code should be free and by the code I mean all the code, from the launcher to the core itself. Now this game to be fully free even the art should be using a free art license.
In my opinion anyone have rights to read any book or watch any movie without paying a penny.
Edited to remove reply. I'm not going to waste my time getting into an argument about art and literature. We are unlikely to ever find common ground on that issue. (assuming that comment is not a troll).
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