Technoethical T400s now available

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SuperTramp83

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> others like you

If you imply 'awesome, decent, intelligent, beautiful and sexy people' than we have no beef. In fact I'm sure you meant just that.

>Your efforts to throw this thread in the trash bin are noted.

Nah, you don't need help.. ur doing it just right, mate. 'u killing it bro' :)

>We at Technoethical would like to be able to continue answering questions about our T400s laptop installed with fully free BIOS and OS.

Remind me please, I'm senile, you'll certainly pardon.. are those the ones that cost 4 times more than the minifree's and are basically the same deal? :)

loldier
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>Let's slide it...

Either that, or we take the main forum to the lounge and let Tehnowhatever keep the spam in what used to be the main thread. Trisquel users forum has been hijacked.

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Technoethical

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There have been questions regarding the Libreboot code running on the Technoethical T400s.

Our policy is to use the latest stable official version of Libreboot on our laptops. That is 20160907.

https://libreboot.org/release/stable/20160907/

We confirm that everything that works in the T400, works in the T400s and in the T500 too. All three laptops share the same code.

In addition to T400 and T500, the T400s has both external SATA (eSATA) and USB connection in the same port (called eSATA+). The USB connection in that port works as expected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp

We didn't have the need to use the additional feature eSATA in the T400s, but we have tested it today and we confirm that it doesn't work with Libreboot 20160907.

We can test the patch proposed by persmule for enabling the extra feature eSATA in the T400s, and share our results on the libreboot-dev mailing list. If that proves safe to be merged in Libreboot for the next release, it would be a nice extra to have when needed (e.g. to back up data).

libreleah
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Hi Tiberiu,

Can you also document (ideally with photos too) how to flash the T400S?

libreboot.org documents T400 flashing, but not T400S. T400S requires heavy amounts of soldering and the procedures differ a lot.

The documentation on libreboot.org is in Markdown and easy to modify. See:
https://libreboot.org/git.html#editing-the-website-and-documentation-wiki-style

Since you're selling them, that means you have knowledge of how to set them up. We've mostly overlooked T400S in Libreboot, and focused on the regular T400, since there aren't many of the T400S models and not many people using it.

Also, thank you for your initiative :)
Don't let any criticisms get to you. People sometimes criticize me too ;)

Regarding persmule's patches... they should work, but yes any testing and reporting would be good. You can drop them into the relevant directory under resources/libreboot/ if you're adapting Libreboot 20160907's build system (recommended, since the one in the Git repository is in a state of flux at the moment). Nobody we knew in Libreboot at the time was using the T400S so testing those patches was difficult, and things were a bit chaotic back then so it just got overlooked.

Once again... apologies for what happened before. And thank you for doing this! :)

~Leah

EDIT:
also, 20160907 is tagged in the git repo if you want to branch off of 20160907 in git. at least AFAIK it should be tagged

but if you do work on documentation patches for libreboot.org, do it in a branch (and then pull request) off of the latest HEAD in master

EDIT2:

the libreboot-dev mailing list is no longer active, if you're thinking of that one

we have a new mailing list. see:
https://libreboot.org/lists

name at domain

alyssa set this up recently. paul, andrew and swift wanted it

Technoethical

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Yes, we plan to write a tutorial showing how to flash Libreboot on the T400s. All our works are licensed under free licenses, so it will be easy to include our tutorial in the documentation at libreboot.org.

FWIW, we've always encouraged and helped people to start businesses around fully free software. We've done this with Vikings and others. Only by making free software our profession we can have a fighting chance against proprietary software.

No one owns free software and no one is starting from scratch when writing free software. Libreboot is no different, it is based on coreboot and other free software.

From the beginning we've offered our help to the project and wanted to work together while making our own money from the flashing and refurbishing service. Instead of being welcome to do it, we've been considered a threat. Since then we've come a long way with the help we've received from the community, despite not having formal endorsement from FSF via RYF or from the Libreboot project (until recently). We still have the hope that gradually things will become normal in the Libreboot project, so we are again making steps towards this goal. We'll see how it goes.

/tct

libreleah
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Hi Tiberiu,

Note that we require GNU Free Documentation License v1.3 or higher, without invariant sections, for the libreboot documentation. (without dual-licensing, at least in the version on libreboot.org)

I don't consider you to be a threat. As a prominent member of the Libreboot project, I personally support you (despite my position running Minifree) and so does the Libreboot project; this was one of the promises set out by our open letter[1], and later on, our collective and democratic management policies[2]. Libreboot is officially neutral[3] about companies, where the only priority is to improve Libreboot. Patches are welcome from anyone, even you ;)

If you start making regular contributions to the point of even becoming a full-time member of the project, I'd even propose to the other team members to add you to the team. I did this with someone else recently, with approval from the team:
https://libreboot.org/news/andrew-robbins-new-maintainer.html

Thank you for working on this. I look forward to merging your patches :)

~Leah

[1] https://libreboot.org/news/unity.html
[2] https://libreboot.org/management.html
[3] https://libreboot.org/suppliers.html

PS: Regarding your T400S product; it is indeed a nice product. The addition of eSATA (once you start using persmule's patches) and others makes a very nice machine. Perhaps you should seek RYF endorsement on it?

quantumgravity
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Suddenly a huge amount of critical comments got downvoted to the point of getting hidden, while tiberius posts experience an astonishing popularity.
Even more surprising, since this changed literally within a few hours - before, things looked quite the other way round.
What might be the reason for this?

loldier
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It's an orchestrated effort to downplay the dissent and take over the forum. I've warned against this. There's a fault in the system, as it only takes a few downvotes to hide a message. A group of some five to eight individuals could easily control the situation to their liking -- which messages stay which get promoted. They are abusing the system that is supposed to be a self-regulating feature to moderate the forum against obvious malice and trolling. Now it's working against the best interests of the forum.

Take Supertramps post, for instance.

Yep. Let's slide it to the trolly lounge! :)

Now ask yourselves, why should this post be hidden?

Magic Banana

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A group of some five to eight individuals could easily control the situation to their liking -- which messages stay which get promoted.

Or one single individual with several accounts. It would be interesting to look into who voted. David can, maybe.

Technoethical

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The discussion is back on track. We call on everyone to not feed the trolls by replying to their comments.

/tct

loldier
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As you can all see right now, it goes on and on. Everybody involved, please think about it a little further. The downvote button is not supposed to cut on legitimate criticism. It's not supposed to be about "popularity." It's only meant to help us keep the trolls out but it cannot help against those within.

Magic Banana

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Indeed. A troll has taken over the system. In my opinion, he should be identified and banned...

quantumgravity
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I agree. This reeks of manipulation. The responsible person should not get away with this, especially not in this forum, which is all about freedom.

loldier
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loldier wrote:

As you can all see right now, it goes on and on. Everybody involved, please think about it a little further. The downvote button is not supposed to cut on legitimate criticism. It's not supposed to be about "popularity." It's only meant to help us keep the trolls out but it cannot help against those within.

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=2#comment-116507

--Magic Babana replied: Indeed. A troll has taken over the system. In my opinion, he should be identified and banned...

--Quantumgravity replied: I agree. This reeks of manipulation. The responsible person should not get away with this, especially not in this forum, which is all about freedom.

Magic Banana and Quantumgravity replied to a post made by me above but it's no longer there (it got hidden in no time) so now it looks like they were replying to Techno's comment about "trolls." Even if you open the hidden message, the indentation is all wrong now.

Here are some posts that were hidden by the puppet army recently.
----------
quantumgravity wrote:

Suddenly a huge amount of critical comments got downvoted to the point of getting hidden, while tiberius posts experience an astonishing popularity.
Even more surprising, since this changed literally within a few hours - before, things looked quite the other way round.
What might be the reason for this?

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=2#comment-116497
---------
loldier wrote:

It's an orchestrated effort to downplay the dissent and take over the forum. I've warned against this. There's a fault in the system, as it only takes a few downvotes to hide a message. A group of some five to eight individuals could easily control the situation to their liking -- which messages stay which get promoted. They are abusing the system that is supposed to be a self-regulating feature to moderate the forum against obvious malice and trolling. Now it's working against the best interests of the forum.

Take Supertramps post, for instance.

Yep. Let's slide it to the trolly lounge! :)

Now ask yourselves, why should this post be hidden?

https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=2#comment-116502

Ignacio.Agullo
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On 16/06/17 22:58, wrote:
> I agree. This reeks of manipulation. The responsible person should not
> get away with this, especially not in this forum, which is all about
> freedom.
>

I agree.

--
Ignacio Agulló · name at domain

Ignacio.Agullo
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On 17/06/17 08:16, Ignacio Agulló wrote:
> On 16/06/17 22:58, wrote:
>> I agree. This reeks of manipulation. The responsible person should not
>> get away with this, especially not in this forum, which is all about
>> freedom.
>
> I agree.

Now I got an e-mail message with the subject "Please don't side
with the trolls"...

--
Ignacio Agulló · name at domain

quantumgravity
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Who did send you this email?

loldier
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Take this account for instance. A member for some nine hours. No posts.

https://trisquel.info/en/users/fdcx

There should be a limit on newly created accounts. Less than ten posts, no rights to vote or post links.

Technoethical

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@GNUbahn Yes, T400s doesn't have soldered RAM. It has two upgradable memory slots.

@Heather T400s, T410s, T420s and T430s all have two upgradable memory slots, and no RAM is soldered on the board. The T440s is the first in the series to have 4GB soldered on the board and only one upgradable memory slot.

/tct

GNUbahn
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Thanks.

I there absolutely no way to get a faster chip working in e.g. a T400s? Is it impossible to replace the motherboard with one holding a faster cpu?

Technoethical

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What CPU has your T400s?

/tct

GNUbahn
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SP9600

Technoethical

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SP9600 (6M Cache, 2.53 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB) is the most powerful processor that is soldered on the T400s boards. It is equivalent to the T9400 CPU upgrade in the T400.

/tct

GNUbahn
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Teah, I know

Is there absolutely no way to get a faster chip working in e.g. a T400s? Is it impossible to replace the motherboard with one holding a faster cpu?

Technoethical

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I think now I understand your question. The mainboards of other laptop models are not compatible with the T400s chassis.

/tct

GNUbahn
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I thought so but had to ask :-)

Thanks

Technoethical

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270 MHz gain (T9600 vs SP9600) doesn't seem a lot to trade for a much lighter and thinner laptop.

What is the most powerful CPU you are using now in your librebooted laptops?

/tct

GNUbahn
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I am using a 2.8 GHz cpu (T9600) on my T500. It is not a lot of difference but it is just as much a question of curiosity and principle.

david

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Hello.

Abusing the voting system to try and hide posts from people we don't agree with doesn't seem ethical and won't be allowed. I'll restore the hidden posts and I trust this won't happen again.

Technoethical

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That has been a reaction to the trolls' abuse of the voting system. As one of them admitted, "before, things looked quite the other way round." The discussion was back on track and more useful information about the T400s has been posted since, but they were hiding on-topic messages they didn't like and they were posting off-topic messages in their new attempt to have the whole discussion hidden (moved to the troll lounge - a subforum where they are top contributors, judging by the frequency their usernames show up there).

We call on everyone to be on-topic when posting in this and other threads. A big thank you to the majority of the Trisquel community for helping keep the discussion on track and not feeding the trolls.

/tct

david

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There's a difference between some users using the voting system to express their individual opinions and several accounts (theoretically belonging to several employees of one company) mass-downvoting from the same IP address any dissenting view .

I'm growing tired of the name calling and other nonsense so please, to everyone involved, don't push things further.

Technoethical

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They work as a group and their track records in other threads prove this. As I mentioned before, this has been only a reaction. Also, it is completely false that we have downvoted "any dissenting view". We have used the voting system to restore valid posts that were intentionally hidden and to hide the off-topic messages posted after the discussion was back on track, which we assumed is the purpose of this voting system.

/tct

david

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I know exactly what everybody has done.
I don't want this to progress any further or happen again.

SuperTramp83

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>I don't want this to progress any further or happen again

Then remove the voting system, problem solved. It's useless bullshit in the first place.

Technoethical

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We are in agreement.

/tct

quantumgravity
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I insist that you stop calling us trolls.
I expressed completely valid viewpoints, I did not elevate the discussion onto a personal level, I am not one of your competitors and have no reason whatsoever to be biased towards you.
However, I, as well as many long established members in this form (I just think of magicbanana, who gives excellent technical advice since years and years) expressed opinions that you did not like, and you just decided to abuse the voting system and hide those posts. This is a very shameful thing to do and not at all "ethical" - it's quite the opposite of what your name is actually promising. And it doesn't show a mindset that is oriented towards freedom.
Calling us "trolls" is a personal attack and does not "keep the discussion on track", quite the opposite.
You're violating the community guidelines and should, in my view, apologize for your inappropriate behavior, at least you should stop.

Technoethical

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If only what you wrote was true. I won't go back to arguing with you, but I'll leave these notes:

> I did not elevate the discussion onto a personal level

You have: "Then he is constantly whining"
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=2#comment-116393

> I am not one of your competitors and have no reason whatsoever to be biased towards you.

You are biased: "like when he had this ridiculous avatar or was fighting with thinkpenguin". I care about ethics/freedom of *technology* and I quoted Richard Stallman agreeing with me that EOMA68 computer boards are *not* libre hardware.
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=2#comment-116393

> I just think of magicbanana

He is biased. He fights anyone who criticize ThinkPenguin (about LibreCMC, EOMA68, and even about labelling Ian Murdock).
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available#comment-116061

> abuse the voting system

That has been a reaction to a previous abuse. "We have used the voting system to restore valid posts that were intentionally hidden and to hide the off-topic messages posted after the discussion was back on track, which we assumed is the purpose of this voting system."
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=3#comment-116655

/tct

loldier
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The day he called Magic Banana "biased" was the eye opener for me. From then on, everything he said was baseless. I hear the chopper blades flapping against air on the rooftop... His words hinge on air so to say -- the banality of detachment when he addresses himself as the royal "we".

Timisoara has been lost, Saigon collapsing and next Bucharest.

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Technoethical

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"We" means Technoethical. Contrary to the use of "we" by former Libreboot lead, I do speak on behalf of my team.

/tct

Ignacio.Agullo
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On 20/06/17 09:06, wrote:
> "We" means Technoethical.

Technounethical suits you best.

--
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SuperTramp83

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> Technounethical suits you best.

technospamical would be a great option too :D

quantumgravity
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> You are biased: "like when he had this ridiculous avatar or was fighting with thinkpenguin".

How does this quote prove me being biased? I observed your actions and drew my conclusions. "Biased" means already having concluded regardless of your actual actions.
Please learn this important difference.
Just because I (and many others) think that your avatar was ridiculous, it does not make me biased.
Just a side note: I never said that there are no freedom issues with EOMA68 (i have no idea if there are), it was all about how you tried to convey this message.

> That has been a reaction to a previous abuse.

Even if there had been previous abuse, it wouldn't have justified abusing the system again for your own sake.
But there wasn't any in the first place.
Unlike your well organized manipulation using sockpuppets, the negative votes for your posts originated in a natural way without any organization. Individuals disliked your post independently from each other.
They were just unpopular.

> He (MagicBanana) is biased. He fights anyone who criticize ThinkPenguin
I won't dig into this any further since MB can speak for himself, but again, unless he actually receives money from or is good friends with TP, he is not biased just because he is in favor of them.
Your usage of the word "biased" makes no sense.

Magic Banana

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For the record:

  • I have never received any money from ThinkPenguin.
  • My interactions with ThinkPenguin almost exclusively are the public exchanges I had with Chris in this forum. I have just checked: besides this forum, I have sent a great total of four emails to Chris, the last one sent more than three years ago.
  • I (almost?) always equally indicate to users of this forum both ThinkPenguin and Technoethical (well, Tehnoetic) as two vendors that sell hardware (in particular Wifi adapters) that is guaranteed to be properly driven by the blob-free kernels of the 100% free GNU/Linux distributions.

Tiberiu apparently defines "being biased" as "criticizing Tiberiu", which I rarely do (whereas Tiberiu does not lose an occasion to despicably bash ThinkPenguin or Minifree) but did in this thread:

Without Leah working on LibreBoot and Chris getting the AR9271 firmware liberated, there would be no Technoethical! Technoethical does good. However, Tiberiu's behavior (as shown in this thread) toward those who made his business possible in the first place is abhorrent.
https://trisquel.info/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=1#comment-116260

Technoethical

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Haha. You say you are "criticizing" me, while I "bash" ThinkPenguin and Minifree, but you are not biased. Oh, the irony.

Without Richard Stallman working on GNU and Ian Murdock working on its distro Debian (both founders) there would be no Minifree or ThinkPenguin. However, Leah's behavior toward Richard and Christopher's toward Ian, who made their businesses possible in the first place, was abhorrent. Not to mention the general behavior toward small businesses like Technoethical, which they perceived as threats from day 1.

FYI, Technoethical would also exist without Libreboot and ath9k_htc free firmware. As you and your friends conveniently have left out, we are the only store to sell phones preinstalled with Replicant. That's not because we've worked against others, we have welcomed them, but because it is so hard to source and refurbish S2, S3 and N2 phones. And one of our first contributions has been the implementation of the initial support in Replicant for external freedom-respecting WiFi adapters. Before that, Replicant users were using mobile data exclusively for connecting to Internet and even the project lead was instructing on his blog how to install nonfree firmware for WiFi on Replicant. Besides phones with Replicant, we also sell internal ath9k (not ath9k_htc) WiFi cards which are the permanent solution for having freedom-respecting WiFi, as they don't take USB ports, don't need any firmware, and they work a lot better, at 2-3 times higher speeds and they're even dual-band.

As I mentioned before, free software has no owners, and nowadays no one develops free software from scratch. And of course criticism has nothing to do with merits. An important contribution to free software doesn't give someone a free pass to "abhorrent behavior" that I and the rest of the Technoethical team had to respond to on this forum.

/tct

SuperTramp83

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>Leah's behavior toward Richard and Christopher's toward Ian, who made their businesses possible in the first place, was abhorrent

Leah apologized for her behavior and also explained the reasons (not that the reasons justify the behavior but it's something) why she acted like that. Why are you insisting on this point?

I

Magic Banana

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Exactly. And Leah even apologized to Tiberiu in this thread (the opposite would have been far more normal). And Tiberiu did not accept her apology + basically call her a lier + childish + ... : https://trisquel.info/forum/technoethical-t400s-now-available?page=1#comment-116281

"Abhorrent" is the proper adjective to describe that post, and many other posts Tiberiu wrote in this thread.

As for Chris and Ian Murdock, I did not even know they were in contact. Were they?

Soon.to.be.Free
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I can't speak for Tiberiu, but I believe the reference may have been to https://trisquel.info/en/forum/arrested-filming-ceo-thinkpenguin-inc-arrested-filming-police-faces-year-prison#comment-113992, where Chris claimed Ian was suffering from mental health issues.

Magic Banana

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People who knew Ian Murdock well do say so. For example, her sister declared to the police (investigating Ian's death) that he "has been having psychological issues for about 20 years": https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock.pdf (page 5).

Is it really what Tiberiu calls "Chris' abhorrent behavior toward Ian"?!

quantumgravity
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How is "suffering from mental health issues" an insult in the first place?

Soon.to.be.Free
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Just to clarify, I in no way intended (or intend) to imply that such a suggestion is an insult. Personally, I don't see any reason to presume the comment was in bad faith or negative. However, Tiberiu didn't see it the same way, as was borne out in later comments, and so (in light of a lack of alternatives) it seemed reasonable to presume that was the object of the reference.

That said, I can't speak on anybody's behalf, and certainly don't want to imply that this is somehow certainly the correct reading of the comment.